The sub system sucks

[killerking]

Please, no sub system next year. The constant arguments and problems made the games less fun while the sub system was supposed to make the games more fun and challenging - though for me this failed horribly. Games we're less fun and a lot more messy. I'd rather see an increase in roster size.

Also, have someone else pick the maps - the ctf game was just retarded with one team having a fortress while the other team had a village (for an example, see ULMS vs Deer game 4).
I don't blame deer, they were just making good use of the map/terrain; the map pick was just ridiculous.

[drunken_deer]

if you watch the replay killerking, we said we would camp just to piss you off! ROFL @ this post.

There was nothing wrong with the sub system now, Since the introduction of new rule system ("First and foremost, subs may only override the mandatory team permission if a team is down by 2 or more players.
Second, besides the -2 player override, the opposing team must agree to any and all substitutes used."). Before when this was not the case whole teams of subs could play but its pretty fair now.

edit: i have no clue why your getting all emotional about subs as well as your roster this morning was full of players not even on your team

according to kilgrath sam the butcher was on wtc, funk obviously being on devils rejects as well.

your player-list on the forums and mwc website is as follows

1. Killerking (teamcaptain)
2. Vigor
3. Jimmy mcnulty
4. General Pepper
5. Arsenal
6, Father Xmas
7. SpookyBMF
8. Scratch
9. Jahral
10. Punkuser (taken off and only added again on July 8th)

As you can clearly see there is no sam the butcher who played in game 3 and game 4 us being told we could not use kil as a substitute making the game 5v4/6v5.
Even though I didnt need kilgrath to support our team for victory you cant start bitching nonsense when you cant even adhere to the sub rules yourself.

[Dantski]

Uhh hasn't ULMS been one of the teams using subs virtually every match?

[Homer]

Hey look everyone it's Dantski!

[Honkey]

We let tirri sub for ulms.

[Asmodian]

I agree with KK, sub systems are terrible. The only real teams in this tournament are: agents,zomg,tmns,tmnt,deer. The rest are just sub teams 6-10, pointless.

[par73]

Our match vs deer really sucked, the only game I thought was fun was game 3, which we mysteriously lost after being up 15 or 20% .

Also, please no sub system next year - it took us 2,5-3 hours to play 5 games because we we're arguing about subs being (not) allowed all the time.
In the end, I think this ruined morale, fun and quality of the games.

the subs are supposed to do the opposite
the code is pretty simple
legal subs can be used no matter what
all other subs have to be granted permission by the other team
this should take 2 minutes tops, one to look at subsitute rank and rules to double check legality
the second minute for the other team to consider

perhaps if people didn't give a shit about where their team placed, realized rosters are still open and not only that but the substitute rule gives them another chance to play in the next round, then it wouldn't take an hour to argue about subsitute players.

also the override was changed after the QRs. while being down 2 players your team was allowed any subs (mandatory team permission override for ball ratings), and being down one player allowed legal subs no matter what.

if teams showed up 6 on 6 (or an even match of players per roster) it is written nowhere in the sub system that substitutes should be allowed to play. duh

[punkUser]

At the very least there needs to be a cap on subs. Like 1-2 max. They are meant to "fill out" the ranks of a team, not be the majority of it. You should never be able to show up with 1 person and construct a sub team to face off against a team with 6-7 players.

[Homer]

At the very least there needs to be a cap on subs. Like 1-2 max. They are meant to "fill out" the ranks of a team, not be the majority of it. You should never be able to show up with 1 person and construct a sub team to face off against a team with 6-7 players.

[killerking]

Let me clear this up:
-Punkuser joined my team again.
-SamTheButcher told me he wanted to join my team after we eliminated DR
-Funk was subbing, I asked you about this and you agreed.

Also, because I was captaining a free agent team I had to deal with the problem of not really knowing who I was playing with and not being sure people were living in the same timezone and could actually play a match together. Also, I couldn't fill out the roster to 12 (but only 9/10). Those were pretty much the only reasons why ULMS used subs (who are partly free agents) every match.

However, I'd rather have played with a roster of 14, and knowing for sure 7 people would show up each match and who know the team strategies and their teammates.

[drunken_deer]

Let me clear this up:
-Punkuser joined my team again.
-SamTheButcher told me he wanted to join my team after we eliminated DR
-Funk was subbing, I asked you about this and you agreed.

Also, because I was captaining a free agent team I had to deal with the problem of not really knowing who I was playing with and not being sure people were living in the same timezone and could actually play a match together. Also, I couldn't fill out the roster to 12 (but only 9/10). Those were pretty much the only reasons why ULMS used subs (who are partly free agents) every match.

However, I'd rather have played with a roster of 14, and knowing for sure 7 people would show up each match and who know the team strategies and their teammates.

1. I stated that punkuser joined your team (no issues here)
2. Sam is not on Devils rejects, he was on WTC thus he is still a sub
3. Funk is still a sub, and so was kilgrath how come you can use subs with more players on your team in the first place and our team can not?

[punkUser]

3. Funk is still a sub, and so was kilgrath how come you can use subs with more players on your team in the first place and our team can not?

ULMS should have only been able to sub up to N-1 players compared to you guys of course (without your approval), but IIRC Funk did drop out after the first game. Kilg was a separate issue - he simply is not allowed to sub for anyone on your team due to him being a 3-baller.

But honestly who really cares... all these sub shenanigans really killed the fun already so let's just let it die.

[drunken_deer]

3. Funk is still a sub, and so was kilgrath how come you can use subs with more players on your team in the first place and our team can not?

ULMS should have only been able to sub up to N-1 players compared to you guys of course (without your approval), but IIRC Funk did drop out after the first game. Kilg was a separate issue - he simply is not allowed to sub for anyone on your team due to him being a 3-baller.

But honestly who really cares... all these sub shenanigans really killed the fun already so let's just let it die.

that actually should be fixed. It is fucking retarded rewarding teams consisting of 4-5 ball players with a larger arsenal of players to select from "cant field subs equal or lower than your own plays". all my team is 2 ball according to the sub stats so none of my team can sub for a 3 ball player ROFL. This Punkuser you are correct on and I had no idea how fucked up the system was in terms of rewarding teams with high skill players. The lack of four and five ball players to replace 'same skill level" is extremely small so nearly the entire roster of subs is available for the top teams.

Punkuser you should care because the more tweaking done to the sub system the more effective in terms of balance and less bitching will be the results.

edit: If I was going to fix the problem, there should be TWO SUB SYSTEMS (one for teams with a majority of high ball player) (and one with a majority of low ball players).

For the low ball teams there is minimum Point cap, and a Max point cap. So lets say your team is comprised of 6x2 ball player you have 12 points used, and the max points your allowed to spend are 20 so you can field two 4 balls or three, three ballers but at the same time remembering that you can only field subs without permission if your team is down by two players. This should only apply for teams less than 18 points and the rules that are applied currently should be used for high tier teams.

[punkUser]

You know what needs to come back... kickball. It was simple and fun and there was far less bitching

[par73]

so tell me again why shittier rosters should be guaranteed players that will carry that team further into the tournament?

why don't you just recruit them for your team in the first place?

[drunken_deer]

so tell me again why shittier rosters should be guaranteed players that will carry that team further into the tournament?

why don't you just recruit them for your team in the first place?

the lack of choice finding someone in such short notice is a disadvantage compared to a high rated team.