GoS + Marius

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:09

Lizard King wrote: Myth has survivedy throughout the years due to the fact that there has been one server throughout it's timeline. Bungienet, then playmyth, then marius.

Lol! I'll let you figure out the flaw in that recollection of history yourself

I'll give you a hint... the server switching functionality wouldn't have been necessary in the client if there was only one server at a time... Even if you had your facts straight, your statement is not a logical argument. By its very assertion it has been untested (since apparently this situation has never occurred).

Lizard King wrote: You can barely get a game now on either server, this is hardly the experience anyone is aiming for.

There have been over two thousand games (20% coop, 80% competitive), including several hundred tournament games played in two weeks on GoS. If you can't get a game, you're doing it wrong.

Lizard King wrote: I'll ask again, please shut down your unestablished pop up tent of a test server, the real one is back after needed maintenance.

Bitch at the community LK, not me. I'm not going to shut it down as long as people want to use it, and if no one used it, I wouldn't even need to shut it down.

nine wrote: bullshit bitchy hipster attitude about "everyone important is here already, who cares about the others - let them play on marius and eat cake! LOL"

I guess you missed the obvious wink emoticon after that. Perhaps I should bold it and use <sarcasm> tags next time?

Anyways judging from the past few nights, the majority seems to already be happily playing on GoS, so if you whiners truly want to help the community, come play where actual games are happening. If you're choosing to go idle on Mnet instead of actually playing with the majority here, you're the problem.

But whatever, there's nothing to be gained from discussing this further. Use whatever metaserver you want to. I'm gonna actually have fun playing games, wherever those may be.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:26

That is point, there was one server throughout myth's history keeping the community intact. The only reason your server has "X" amount of games played is because marius has been offline during server maintenance and your homeless shelter of a server has provided a suitable island during the downtime. If there had been multiple servers dividing the community and spreading it thin myth wouldn't exist. Your server has existed several weeks and boasts nothing but unfulfilled promises while marius has been here for years keeping myth alive.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:31

Lizard King wrote:The only reason your server has "X" amount of games played is because marius has been offline during server maintenance and your homeless shelter of a server has provided a suitable island during the downtime.

LK you're not even trying to make a coherent argument now. You can check yourself how many of those games predate vs postdate Marius coming back on line (hint, activity is higher if anything in the past few days). There's no point in discussing this further because you have preconceived notions that are apparently immune to actual evidence.

Lizard King wrote: If there had been multiple servers dividing the community and spreading it thin myth wouldn't exist.

Yeah way to ignore my response and just repeat the same thing again. Like I said, there's no point in arguing with me. I'm going to continue to develop GoS and make the Myth experience better. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.

Not sure what "unfulfilled promises" you're speaking of; I think everyone here would attest that I've been pretty responsive, and there have been several metaserver updates in the past two weeks even. It's hard to argue that's worse than the situation at Mnet I think...

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:32

Here, cu: http://tain.totalcodex.net/forum/viewto ... =15#p63043

Evidently you missed the part where I lead off with a hedge. I'm not feigning certainty, unlike yourself, and others in this thread.

Dantski · Post by **Dantski** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:36

This thread has potential.

Just needs grim and kirk to get emotionally invested and some offhand remarks from limp and shinco.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:38

Dantski wrote:This thread has potential.

We're pretty low on images, gifs and youtube embeds as well though... needs work.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:49

NewMutator wrote:Here, cu: http://tain.totalcodex.net/forum/viewto ... =15#p63043

Evidently you missed the part where I lead off with a hedge. I'm not feigning certainty, unlike yourself, and others in this thread.

Certainty with what, what are you even talking about? It was a fix/change and it wasn't deliberate, so change it back. At this point wouldn't you want to create the least amount of new issues with a 14 year old game?

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:51

The point is that I'm not talking out of my ass like you seem to think. You want it changed back? I already invited you to dialogue with Project Magma. Go for it.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 19 Jun 2013, 23:01

There are fewer games and players split between two servers resulting in that deficit of games, what more evidence do you need.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 23:09

Fewer games compared with what? Last year? No shit! There wasn't an issue with the metaserver going down for 2 weeks last year. Plus, there's liable to be fewer games over time anyway; this is key because that trend will likely continue indefinitely if you have your way.

dac · Post by **dac** » 19 Jun 2013, 23:13

here kil, let me help you.

punkUser wrote: We're pretty low on images, gifs and youtube embeds as well though... needs work.

hell, i'll help you too!

gdi cant upload on here and cant post it somewhere else from work.

here:

http://forum.gateofstorms.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=862

hint: view results.

its currently 12/12, aka a 50% split. that is proof enough that its splitting people, if they cant all agree to play on a server.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 23:30

I wouldn't call that proof for a couple reasons.

For one, it's not a poll about whether the community is split, it's a poll about where MWC ought to be played.

It's a self-reported poll, which are notorious for response biases, not to mention the size of the polling base is particularly susceptible to other forms of peer intimidation.

Someone can vote either way without a thought as to whether the community is "split" -- so the idea that the poll measures relative readings of "splitness" is not a particularly valid inference.

24 responses so far may not be representative of the entire community. Not everyone will be motivated to respond, and those that do are more likely to feel strongly about their side winning out.

It's relatively easy for someone who hasn't voted to know the poll results, and that can unduly influence their response. Somewhat related, the results are displayed post-vote, so a motivated bloc can privately galvanize associates, who might not otherwise be motivated to respond, to vote with them.

The "split community" argument may be predicated on certain assumptions about causality that may not be borne out by the evidence. There may therefore be an element of self-fulfilling prophecy involved.

dac · Post by **dac** » 19 Jun 2013, 23:54

or it may be that 12 people (currently) think that having a population on the known server would be a good idea. you can talk about biases all you want, but there's a clear side here that does not agree with you.

i think gos is superior for tournament games. i love the features and statistics.

i think non-tournament games should be played on mnet when possible, but with all the tournaments currently running it's not at all practical.

i think a blue bar on mnet is the best case scenario, but this is unlikely to happen.

couple of other things for the games evidence:

lots of 1x1s are happening now. These are RARE except that now there is a tournament with them. The activity is artificially high for this reason. I would say the 1x1s average 8 min timers (plus PT) and are done before that, 2t games average 12 minutes (plus PT) and frequently done a little sooner, so more games can be played faster due to the type of games being played. I think that ffas usually run out the clock, but still usually those arent the length of a mwc game for example.

there are tons of ways to throw out or dismiss all types of statistics, but the fact is you have a set of people who thinks that the servers are splitting the community and they do have evidence that when server migrations happen, populations shrink. it's not the only reason for the shrink, but you cant say its an outlier when you have bungie/marius/playmyth/marius migrations happening.

Pyro · Post by **Pyro** » 19 Jun 2013, 23:58

For what it is worth, this isn't the first time there were 2 servers online at the same time. MariusNet was around before PlayMyth opened. PlayMyth was new and had stuff Mnet did not. So players migrated there even though Mnet was first and established. This is why the server switcher in Myth2 was added. During the 1.4.x days, people had to manually take out server plugins and put the others in.

spring 2001 - Bnet TFL server goes down
Aug. 2001 - MariusNet opens
Feb. 2002 - Bnet M2 server goes down
April 2002 - PlayMyth opens
June 2004 - M2 1.5.0 released with a server switcher
May 2007 - PlayMyth site goes down, server still up
Sept. 2007 - MariusNet 2.0 opens, new site/forums as the old were down
Oct. 2007 - PlayMyth server goes down after months that the site was down

So we had 2 servers online for 5 years (2002-2007) and MariusNet was not the main one during those days. When PlayMyth's site went down, there were efforts to convince the player base to move to Mnet. At one point there were like 80+ players on Mnet during one night while PlayMyth was still online. However, the next day they all would go back to PlayMyth... until it went down and they had no option but Mnet.

nine · Post by **nine** » 20 Jun 2013, 00:17

NewMutator wrote:I wouldn't call that proof for a couple reasons.

For one, it's not a poll about whether the community is split, it's a poll about where MWC ought to be played.

It's a self-reported poll, which are notorious for response biases, not to mention the size of the polling base is particularly susceptible to other forms of peer intimidation.

Someone can vote either way without a thought as to whether the community is "split" -- so the idea that the poll measures relative readings of "splitness" is not a particularly valid inference.

24 responses so far may not be representative of the entire community. Not everyone will be motivated to respond, and those that do are more likely to feel strongly about their side winning out.

It's relatively easy for someone who hasn't voted to know the poll results, and that can unduly influence their response. Somewhat related, the results are displayed post-vote, so a motivated bloc can privately galvanize associates, who might not otherwise be motivated to respond, to vote with them.

The "split community" argument may be predicated on certain assumptions about causality that may not be borne out by the evidence. There may therefore be an element of self-fulfilling prophecy involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP0mhGmU ... .be&t=1m9s

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 20 Jun 2013, 00:19

dac wrote:there are tons of ways to throw out or dismiss all types of statistics, but the fact is you have a set of people who thinks that the servers are splitting the community and they do have evidence that when server migrations happen, populations shrink.

I'm not contesting the fact that people feel very strongly about staying on Mnet, in fact I'm actually somewhat surprised the preference isn't more pronounced, as I would consider the typical long-time Myth player to be very conservative on such things. No, I'm merely objecting to your word choice. Feel free to re-read my opening line.

Also, I'd like to reiterate that the strategy of the people claiming that GoS is splitting the community seems to be to further fracture the community, which makes their position seem stronger than it would otherwise appear. There's no question server issues interrupt the continuity of the Myth population, but whether GoS is causing the split is essentially what's at issue. I agree this can easily be resolved by an Mnet bluebar message, but like you say, it's unlikely to happen due to the fact that PPE is busy and/or effectively unresponsive. The best solution may be to ditch Mnet altogether in that case, since I don't buy the "stability" arguments being offered. If anything that further supports the case for making Mnet the backup to GoS.

Melekor · Post by **Melekor** » 20 Jun 2013, 00:21

Wow 12 pages. OMG Punk you're killing myth!!!111

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:1.8 is more of a problem than either server. HUGE difference in gameplay. Can't click through the top bar is debilitating, as well as the adjusted viewing angles, so you see a smaller portion of the screen than you used to. The premature loading of the screen is stupid... as is the trading bar display.

The adjusted viewing angles thing isn't true. The angle is the same as is the visible area. What was done in 1.8 was that the camera pan was adjusted so that the screen does not move when the status bar is toggled on or off. The size of visible area is EXACTLY the same as it was before, it's just moved over by like 1 foot or something depending on how zoomed in you are.

Clicking through the status bar - Yeah this got changed unintentionally when the status bar was redone to support arbitrary resolutions. However, why do you need to click through the bar anyways? How it works currently seems to make a lot more sense imo, clicking through kinda seems like a bug anyways or at the very least, unexpected. Does anyone else care about this one way or the other?

Loading of the screen, and trading bar - how are they "stupid" and how are they affecting how you play the the game in any way whatsoever? The modified trading bar was another part of the change to support arbitrary resolutions, it wasn't done for no reason. Making the screen load before "waiting for players" was done so that people could see the trading bar to see if they were captain before the game loads, something that people complained about not being able to do in the beta.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:00

Frankly... I dont have a preference. But there s really no right answer to this question. Having all the updated features on a new server is pretty cool however I only signed on to the chat room thing and really didn't understand it too well (is that what the server looks like or was I in the wrong place?)

People are very adverse to change, and I will tell you right now that it really depends on the user. I have personally put off signing on to the new server because I didnt want to fuck around with Dling a program and installing it, as I frankly I was being lazy. The point there is.... there will be other mythers that are going to be just as lazy if not worse. I also don't think people really care about stats anymore, or even so much about winning the tournament as much as they do about competing in some fun games where they can at least ensure their teammates are competent, enjoyable to play with, or for whatever value the game adds to their life.

It all really depends on what utility you get out of myth. For me personally, I only continue to play because I enjoy some of the characters on this game (aka players) and it is fun to try some new maps in tournaments and really play for nostalgia.

The real reason for dwindling tournament numbers etc is the fact that most of us still playing started in our early teens and we are approaching 30. For instance when I started this game I am pretty sure my voice was still squeeky, and now I am at the point where I am overseeing a multimillion dollar premium per year insurance agency. I am not married and dont have kids, but if I was I assure you I wouldn't be here. Lets take a look at some players I can list off the top of my head that quit myth because they frankly out grew it...

Rocket dive, rolling rock, tb, Rodekill, and that is just who I could think of off the top of my head. You can't expect young kids to get excited about this game, because kids are fucking stupid and the learning curve is too much.

Myths problems can be directly pinpointed on players growing up and becomign adults. That is it... it has nothing to do with servers, stat tracking, rank icons, etc. Splitting the servers only accelerates the process of dwindling numbers, however the same stale shit also clearly affects some players.

To summarize:

Splitting servers is not a smart idea right by mwc for the following reasons:

People are lazy as fuck
Mythers are averse to change
A majority of mythers dont give 2 shits about stats or winning tournaments

Myth is dying because:

Players are getting married, having kids, and frankly dont have time anymore. And even when they do have time it is much more appealing to sign on to a game such as LOL where you know you can get a game in 30 seconds tops.

I highly doubt there is anyway to stop people from growing up or being lazy.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:11

As basically everyone has inferred, GoS is nothing but a popup tent for the community during the marius server maintenance. The fact of the matter is you have a slapped together server that has existed several weeks while marius has been the backbone of the myth community for roughly a decade. This is one of the most active times of the year where you can get great games with good players; that's not happening now solely because of your arrogance and stubbornness. You're not convincing anyone besides yourselves here and you lack the credibility and empirical evidence to stake any kind of claim.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:13

I signed on myth but no players.... I signed on this server and it just pallidice. Am i doing something wrong?

Vantobia · Post by **Vantobia** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:15

Palli scared everyone away. Truth

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:22

Lizard King wrote:As basically everyone has inferred, GoS is nothing but a popup tent for the community during the marius server maintenance. The fact of the matter is you have a slapped together server that has existed several weeks while marius has been the backbone of the myth community for roughly a decade. This is one of the most active times of the year where you can get great games with good players; that's not happening now solely because of your arrogance and stubbornness. You're not convincing anyone besides yourselves here and you lack the credibility and empirical evidence to stake any kind of claim.

Not everyone has inferred this, in fact it's a minority opinion, and Punk has been explicit about what GoS is from day 1, that is, a new metaserver with an emphasis on tournament-centric features. The fact of the matter is that you only describe yourself when you accuse others of being arrogant and stubborn.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:29

dac wrote: i think non-tournament games should be played on mnet when possible, but with all the tournaments currently running it's not at all practical.

Sure, I actually agree with this entirely. The reason I'm mostly on GoS is because I'm looking for 1v1s for the tourney. Makes a lot of sense to play tourneys here and not have to upload films and the like in my opinion, and have it all archived nicely for when you all want to argue about what year was the most "competitive" in the future

As far as regular play goes outside of tournaments, I don't really care - it's the same in both places. I'll play where the majority of games are happening.

dac wrote: lots of 1x1s are happening now. These are RARE except that now there is a tournament with them. The activity is artificially high for this reason.

Sure, but you say "artificially" as if they are not real games or something. Fact of the matter is, if you want to play some fun 1v1s, now is a great time to join the tourney and catch games. That's a good thing in my opinion, and I'm not even an avid 1v1er.

In any case the point was not to argue that there are more games than [insert arbitrary time period] going, but rather that there isn't a sudden shortage of games going on or anything. In fact there are plenty.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 20 Jun 2013, 01:46

There is 15 players on one server and 19 on another right now and only about 4 of these are double accounts.

Using two server without one being established as the primary server will kill myth2. I could care less what server we use at the primary server but this does need to happen.

IMO Marius should be used until GoS enables you to do the following: ability to change screen name, rank system, stats that show up in your profile. (assuming that marius.net is stable open being reopen)

^^^

These are the features that I have heard the community be most upset over as to what GoS does not have.

Melekor · Post by **Melekor** » 20 Jun 2013, 02:13

So after thinking about this for a while, here is my take:

I think GoS clearly has a lot more going for it in the long term, due to the possibility of future developments. The question is what to do in the short term. IMO the long term view alone means GoS should become the default. Now starting with that premise, let's consider the counter arguments:

(1) mnet has more features, like rank, wank, etc etc.

If we could get a statement from punk about which of the missing features are planned, I think it would eliminate some of the uncertainty here.

(2) mnet is more stable, because it's been around so long, while GoS is new and who knows, punk might disappear tomorrow

This is a valid line of argument, but I'm not sure if it's supported by the evidence. PPE has been ramping down his involvement for years while punk has been ramping his up for years. mariusnet.com is giving out 500 internal server errors as we speak. Punk has a huge investment into GoS and Myth in general, I don't see him just disappearing.

(3) having GoS and mariusnet up at the same time is splitting the community.. therefore GoS should be shut down so the community isn't split.

I see several people taking this position, and I don't think it's a valid argument. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. If GoS is actually better, but you only play on mnet because playing on GoS would be splitting the community, then you are the one splitting the community. The decision really has to be based on which one is better.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 20 Jun 2013, 02:17

actually the more I read I like the idea of the new server. Is there anyway you could allow a spectate mode with a 3-4 minute delay? I think a feature like that would really convince people to use it for tournament play. I understand doing that is probably really complicated/impossible given the time and resource constraints but I figured id throw it out there.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 20 Jun 2013, 02:33

Honkey wrote:actually the more I read I like the idea of the new server. Is there anyway you could allow a spectate mode with a 3-4 minute delay?

Yes, definitely! Those of you who have chatted with me might know that this is not only possible, but it is like, the very next major feature on my TODO list for the client/metaserver. Film streaming was step 1 in making this happen. Next is live observing and directly watching films from the metaserver (i.e. imagine typing '.view mwc2013 tnmt_vs_agents 1' or something and automatically launching into that game), then a host of other features built on the same tech: multiplayer saves, metaserver routing (so anyone can host regardless of firewall situation), synchronized replay viewing, etc. There's a lot of options and film streaming/saving is just the very first step.

Regarding the features that people have mentioned, getting players stats in the stats screen ingame is something I have been working on this week already. I should have something there in the next few days depending on how much time I get to work on it. Rank system has been discussed with the majority of the process there being just deciding on something that is acceptable and fun for such a small community (most ranking systems require larger player bases to be at all interesting).

And yeah, as Mel notes it's hard to call rank and stats an advantage on Mnet right now anyways, as all of that is broken currently with no comment from PPE yet on it getting fixed.

Changing nicknames has been discussed - it is not going to be supported, but guest accounts with arbitrary names will continue to be allowed to do anything. I don't think it's unfair for you to use your forum name when playing in tournaments, and that precedent is well established in other games. Outside of that, there's really no reason you have to be registered. (And no, sorting in the list is not really a valid argument. In fact sorting by "ID" is really stupid and something we should look at changing in the next Myth update. Database IDs are not supposed to be end-user visible at all - they are entirely for the purposes of joins.)

limp · Post by **limp** » 20 Jun 2013, 02:43

Just thought I would have a pop in because this is all very hilarious, and I have direct experience in these matters.

A long time ago, bungie.net died, and two servers were constructed almost simultaneously to support our community.

These two servers were known affectionately as EI.net and Playmyth.net, you may remember them. EI.net had the features and Playmyth.net had the support, we were at the same impasse with a much larger user base and much more at stake at that time. So we all bit our pride a little bit and joined our teams together, effectively merging EI.net into Playmyth.net.

We did this because both sides knew, conclusively, that having two separate servers would splinter the community, and potentially kill the game's activity altogether. EI.net had more features, but we were willing to sacrifice some of them for the longevity of the game and the community, so we did.

Now, from the outside looking in, this entire argument seems ridiculous and childish. From what I can tell, there are no more than (3?) people advocating for an entire sea change in regards to switching servers, these seem to be punkuser (the creator of the server), GKG (running his tournament through the server), and Lord NO(stoked on stats i guess?), I see no one else in 13 pages of this thread.

You say, 2000 games since the server has been up? That's neat, but you do understand, that a large amount of those games are from GKG's 1v1 tournament, which are *required* to be played on the GoS server, 1v1 games that are generally over within 5 minutes time or less. This was not a choice by the people competing, this is predicated in the rules for the 1v1 tournament, that GoS MUST be used to complete these 1v1 games. People have been forced to played on GoS for many of these games, it was not a choice if they wanted to compete.

This notion is a very dangerous idea to impose at such a sensitive time regarding our community's longevity. You have, in effect, compromised the continuity of our home for the past 10 years just so GKG can have advanced statistics that he doesn't have to extrapolate himself, in his own 1v1 tournament. Advanced statistics tracking is far less important than the continuity of our existence.

This is generally the most active time of year for Myth, this has been true for over a decade, but when I sign on right now, to _either_ server, it looks like MWC just ended, and we'll have to wait another year for any decent games. This is a disaster.

I applaud your effort, but your execution has been downright laughable, seemingly driven by your own agenda.

Maybe you should all talk about unifying, instead of making a choice, because right now all you are doing is perpetuating the death of this game.

But at least you didn't have to add up damage from 7 different films!

xo

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 20 Jun 2013, 02:44

Melekor wrote:(2) mnet is more stable, because it's been around so long, while GoS is new and who knows, punk might disappear tomorrow

This is a valid line of argument, but I'm not sure if it's supported by the evidence. PPE has been ramping down his involvement for years while punk has been ramping his up for years. mariusnet.com is giving out 500 internal server errors as we speak. Punk has a huge investment into GoS and Myth in general, I don't see him just disappearing.

(3) having GoS and mariusnet up at the same time is splitting the community.. therefore GoS should be shut down so the community isn't split.

I see several people taking this position, and I don't think it's a valid argument. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. If GoS is actually better, but you only play on mnet because playing on GoS would be splitting the community, then you are the one splitting the community. The decision really has to be based on which one is better.

(2) The evidence to that is that mariusnet has been up for over a decade now and when an issue came up with the server it was dealt with, all while communicating to the community. Your evidence for punk is that you "just dont see him disappearing." If he didn't truly give a shit about keeping up a stable server for the community why would he even bother discussing the issues in detail, or continue to host mnet at all and just focus on his other site? Your evidence for punkuser keeping GoS up in a comparable manner is that "he has a huge investment in GoS and Myth in general." All you have here is promises versus a proven track record.

(3) You're creating an argument out of nothing. I don't think anyone said they would play on mariusnet only because playing on GoS would split the community, there are numerous factors why one would choose mnet over GoS which I think most people in vocal opposition have listed multiple times.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 20 Jun 2013, 02:51

limp wrote:stoked on stats i guess?

Stoked on stats and all the other features in the works that PunkUser just listed.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 20 Jun 2013, 03:01

Cutard wrote:(2) The evidence to that is that mariusnet has been up for over a decade now and when an issue came up with the server it was dealt with, all while communicating to the community. Your evidence for punk is that you "just dont see him disappearing." If he didn't truly give a shit about keeping up a stable server for the community why would he even bother discussing the issues in detail, or continue to host mnet at all and just focus on his other site? Your evidence for punkuser keeping GoS up in a comparable manner is that "he has a huge investment in GoS and Myth in general." All you have here is promises versus a proven track record.

(3) You're creating an argument out of nothing. I don't think anyone said they would play on mariusnet only because playing on GoS would split the community, there are numerous factors why one would choose mnet over GoS which I think most people in vocal opposition have listed multiple times.

The evidence is plain to see. You're conservative, so of course you weigh the familiar more than unexplored possibilities. I don't think anything can be said to sway you. Punk could roll out GoS 2.0 with all the features listed and you'd still insist Mnet is the way to go because it's "untested." You don't know Punk personally, so you're perfectly fine characterizing him as unreliable. Typical conservative paranoia.

As for, (3), how about LK's repeated insistence that Punk "shut down" GoS because he's obviously the problem. Come on, man, you're being disingenuous, and you know it.

limp · Post by **limp** » 20 Jun 2013, 03:02

Also, for Dant:

you're all a bunch of silly faggots, do as you please!

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 20 Jun 2013, 03:42

limp wrote: These two servers were known affectionately as EI.net and Playmyth.net, you may remember them. EI.net had the features and Playmyth.net had the support, we were at the same impasse with a much larger user base and much more at stake at that time. So we all bit our pride a little bit and joined our teams together, effectively merging EI.net into Playmyth.net.

Awesome, and as you may have noticed if you have read anything on this forum, it was never my plan to start a separate server. I did that after PPE told me to since he was no longer going to develop (or even allow development on) MariusNet. So yeah, no pride, PPE and I are in agreement here...

Also, why is everyone ignoring Pyro's post about how multiple servers have coexisted for a large chunk of the life of Myth already? Selective memories?

limp wrote: From what I can tell, there are no more than (3?) people advocating for an entire sea change in regards to switching servers

I am not even arguing for that, you are misrepresenting me. I am only arguing that it is worth playing tournament games on GoS, for obvious reasons. Where other games happen is fairly irrelevant to me - that's up to the community to decide. I'm personally playing more on GoS right now due to the 1v1 tourney, but yeah.

limp wrote: You say, 2000 games since the server has been up? ... People have been forced to played on GoS for many of these games, it was not a choice if they wanted to compete.

Only 10% of them, if you read the thread. And it was never an argument for anything other than there being active games to play on GoS, which does not require people to have a choice of servers as an axiom...

limp wrote: This is generally the most active time of year for Myth, this has been true for over a decade, but when I sign on right now, to _either_ server, it looks like MWC just ended, and we'll have to wait another year for any decent games. This is a disaster.

I think LN has done an adequate job of explaining how vacuous that argument is, so I won't rehash. In fact this whole thread is turning into a rehash. :S

limp wrote: Maybe you should all talk about unifying, instead of making a choice, because right now all you are doing is perpetuating the death of this game.

Talk to PPE bro - I'm not the issue here. And for the love of god read the thread so I don't need to explain the history again.

SeekerAntiVegan · Post by **SeekerAntiVegan** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:11

punkUser wrote:
limp wrote: These two servers were known affectionately as EI.net and Playmyth.net, you may remember them. EI.net had the features and Playmyth.net had the support, we were at the same impasse with a much larger user base and much more at stake at that time. So we all bit our pride a little bit and joined our teams together, effectively merging EI.net into Playmyth.net.
Awesome, and as you may have noticed if you have read anything on this forum, it was never my plan to start a separate server. I did that after PPE told me to since he was no longer going to develop (or even allow development on) MariusNet. So yeah, no pride, PPE and I are in agreement here...

Also, why is everyone ignoring Pyro's post about how multiple servers have coexisted for a large chunk of the life of Myth already? Selective memories?

They have not. By and large the majority of activity has always been on one server. The other server existed just for stragglers.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:17

SeekerAntiVegan wrote: They have not. By and large the majority of activity has always been on one server. The other server existed just for stragglers.

Right but that's the point - two servers have been up at once for years and everything was fine. So yeah, I'm all for choosing a server to play regular games on, it's the notion that one has to be shut down that is not supported.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:21

I can't keep up with this thread anymore, which says a lot coming from me.

people are going to play where they want, i don't know what is so fucking hard to comprehend about that. no one is going to force me to play on a server i don't want to. as far as my tournament, yea i hosted a tournament and I get to set the rules of the tournament. its my time, i made the initiative in organizing it, its my right to organize it however the fuck i want to. if people didn't like it they didn't have to join or participate in it, but i was honest and upfront about what they were getting into. they still signed up. They seem to like the idea as it is a super active tournament so far. so you can go suck a fat baby cock right there limp, and anyone else who may have talked shit about SOMEONE ORGANIZING A SUCCESSFUL MYTH TOURNAMENT THAT WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED OTHERWISE. DO YOU KNOW HOW FUCKING CRAZY YOU SOUND RIGHT NOW? LOL.

punkuser is going to keep his server up because a) he spent time on it, its his project, his baby, and that's his right, and b) there are people that like it, as you can see about a 50/50 split in the server vote thread. All the bitching and whining in the world isn't going to change those 2 things, the server is staying up.

most amusing is the mnet website has been down ever since it came up, which was basically the entire value of that server right there. mnet without a website and we are still having this discussion, quite hilarious.

maybe when the mnet site is actually back to normal we can have this conversation again because then the mnet fanboys will have at least some kind of ground to stand on with their argument. until then...

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:29

Giant Killer General wrote: punkuser is going to keep his server up because a) he spent time on it, its his project, his baby, and that's his right, and b) there are people that like it, as you can see about a 50/50 split in the server vote thread. All the bitching and whining in the world isn't going to change those 2 things, the server is staying up.

As I've indicated, if you guys can convince PPE to let me add the features to MariusNet and/or just replace MariusNet's server instance with this one, I will shut GoS down in an instant. I have no desire to have two servers or be admin or anything like that; I just want the metaserver to be an actively developed platform with new features being added.

SeekerAntiVegan · Post by **SeekerAntiVegan** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:31

punkUser wrote:
SeekerAntiVegan wrote: They have not. By and large the majority of activity has always been on one server. The other server existed just for stragglers.
Right but that's the point - two servers have been up at once for years and everything was fine. So yeah, I'm all for choosing a server to play regular games on, it's the notion that one has to be shut down that is not supported.

Anyone who says you need to shut down your server is engaging in hyperbole.

However, people do want the vast majority of players to be playing on one server. The choice seems to be mariusnet for ease of access.

GodzFire · Post by **GodzFire** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:35

The ideal scenario (pipedream as it is), is for PPE to allow Punk or someone else to take over the running of M.Net so improvements and updates can be made. Punk or whoever could then either add the features that make GoS unique or use the GoS architecture as the new code base and re-add the features unique to M.Net and while running under the M.Net name.

This eliminates pretty much every conflict brought up from splitting the community to missing features on either server to being able to update and maintain the server for the future.

That said, the only way for this to happen is for the community at large to come to PPE as a whole and request it.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:37

Lizard King wrote:I asked politely

GKG, Punk, Newmutator (whoever the fuck that is) shut the fuck up. You three clearly know nothing of this community or it's past. Myth has survivedy throughout the years due to the fact that there has been one server throughout it's timeline. Bungienet, then playmyth, then marius. If there had been multiple servers throughout myths timeline the community would have been fractured and myth would most likely not exist today. Having 12 players on each server doesn't help the community or new players logging on whatsoever. Please, collectively pull yours heads out of eachothers asses as the empirical evidence is more than enough to know you three haven't the slightest clue. You can barely get a game now on either server, this is hardly the experience anyone is aiming for. I'll ask again, please shut down your unestablished pop up tent of a test server, the real one is back after needed maintenance. The day may come when it's required, but that certainly isn't now.

oh sweet mother of god I am going to have fun with you right now.

marius only came after playmyth? oooohhhh REAAAALLLLLYYYY.

obviously by your post you do not realize that for about 5 or so years mariusnet and playmyth both existed at the same time.

So how about you shut the fuck up.
You clearly know nothing of this community or it's past.
Please, collectively pull your head out of your ass.

oh god I could go on and on, your entire post is a fucking goldmine, just re-read that shit, HILARIOUS

like a lamb to the wolves

retard.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:41

GodzFire wrote:The ideal scenario (pipedream as it is), is for PPE to allow Punk or someone else to take over the running of M.Net so improvements and updates can be made. Punk or whoever could then either add the features that make GoS unique or use the GoS architecture as the new code base and re-add the features unique to M.Net and while running under the M.Net name.

This eliminates pretty much every conflict brought up from splitting the community to missing features on either server to being able to update and maintain the server for the future.

That said, the only way for this to happen is for the community at large to come to PPE as a whole and request it.

This right here really is the answer. Can we get this done? People say PPE seems to not be contact with the community or willing to allow access to his server, which is understandable. All that is really needed is the mariusnet domain. A simple forward to GoS IP would solve the problem.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 20 Jun 2013, 04:48

No thread started by asmodian should have lasted beyond the first page of posting.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 20 Jun 2013, 05:21

PPE is stubborn as hell, you are never going to get anything out of him. he doesn't give a 2 fucks about the myth community, sure sounds like right who want the community to be in the hands of.

quite hilarious how people want to start giving marius the full reign of its timeline "stable for 10+ years" they say, while simultaneously ignoring that they just (incorrectly) said mariusnet wasn't up until after playmyth went down

but hey, limp sure knows his history you guys.

mariusnet always had its tiny community that stuck with it, even throughout the entire pmnet era. it was a bunch of co-opers / newbie unranked players. all the competitive players went to pmnet because it had better features for that.

sound familiar?

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 20 Jun 2013, 05:29

Mariusnet was the home of TFL when bungie went down and was certainly around before playmyth.net

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 20 Jun 2013, 05:39

Giant Killer General wrote:PPE is stubborn as hell, you are never going to get anything out of him. he doesn't give a 2 fucks about the myth community, sure sounds like right who want the community to be in the hands of.

quite hilarious how people want to start giving marius the full reign of its timeline "stable for 10+ years" they say, while simultaneously ignoring that they just (incorrectly) said mariusnet wasn't up until after playmyth went down

but hey, limp sure knows his history you guys.

mariusnet always had its tiny community that stuck with it, even throughout the entire pmnet era. it was a bunch of co-opers / newbie unranked players. all the competitive players went to pmnet because it had better features for that.

sound familiar?

PPE has done more for Myth than you ever have or will, and its absolutely hilarious to watch you calling someone else stubborn. Want to go back to mocking grim about MWC again? You haven't made one valid point in this entire thread while you have consistently addressed points people either didn't make or you just argued with irrelevant shit that has no weight to the discussion at all. You have been utterly worthless.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 20 Jun 2013, 05:45

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:No thread started by asmodian should have lasted beyond the first page of posting.

I have the top 3 or 4 most popular threads, you jelly?

dac · Post by **dac** » 20 Jun 2013, 06:05

Asmodian wrote:
BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:No thread started by asmodian should have lasted beyond the first page of posting.
I have the top 3 or 4 most popular threads, you jelly?

you guys should see asmo's threads in the TMNT forum.

total gold.

27 pages of magic underwear!

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 20 Jun 2013, 06:06

Asmodian wrote:
BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:No thread started by asmodian should have lasted beyond the first page of posting.
I have the top 3 or 4 most popular threads, you jelly?

Shows how fucking rubbish myth has become.

dac · Post by **dac** » 20 Jun 2013, 06:07

pogue ~ rubbish, aboot, eh, favour.

all those non americal sellout terms are still way better than anything boston, congrats on the upgrade!

noblesteed · Post by **noblesteed** » 20 Jun 2013, 06:08

This is one of the only serious posts I will make regarding the myth community.

I'm honestly fucking disgusted that punkuser and newmutator have turned this into some sort of "conservative vs liberal" argument. Honestly, what the fuck are you two talking about? Nobody cares about new features/improving multiplayer. I want a multiplayer to exist. I want cw, rk, and khan to come back and play so I can get some decent 2team games in before this game dies altogether. LOOK AT IT FROM A PLAYERS PERSPECTIVE. You are inactive 10 months out of the year. You come back 0 games and 10 players on marius. You log in the next day same thing. You log off forever. Period. End of discussion. THERES NO WAY for them to know of GOS. My idiot brother is example of this. That player is gone forever. We have ABSOLUTELY ALREADY lost at least 6-8 regular MWC players this way. So they are gone forever. Thank god your server records films. So thanks for helping to kill myth faster.