The proposed ball ratings

grim · Post by **grim** » 28 Apr 2013, 07:57

Tentative list. Argue about these, post your suggestions for the ratings, add active players that I'm missing so we get a more polished list for the salary cap.

5 balls
GKG
Adrenaline

4 balls

TIRRI
East wind
Shaister
Ska
Sam
Limp
Cave
Crc
Arzenic
Dantski
Karma
Gekko
Bone
Cruniac
Paris
Absolut
Chengis
Kilgrath
Myrk
Ratking
Browning
Rabican
Chickenwire

3 balls

Duan
Demolition
Thalander
August
Kryptos
Flatline
Slate
ProfessionaKiller
Homer
Hadiez
wwo
Dante
Enculator
Gamer
Qwerty
Ramirez
Stormrider
Captain
Mark
Cremisi
Ksiaze
Valentine
Muse
hmp
ten
asmo
Sasper
Rodekill
Pioneer (Rza)
Head Hunter
Father Xmas
Sormiron
Alk
Raper
StoneCold
Bronson
Honkey
Aki
RodeKi11
Jotun
Toxyn
Monty
Blonde
Khan
Zak

Two balls

PunkUser
Seeker
Evil Jake
Matty
Ginga
terry the kid
KABUKI
hiropon
Kao
ape
Scratch
Renwood
Empy Phil
Falcon
Boss
ten
Masterchief
Drunken
Sight
Vantobia
Vasazel
Jahral
SamTheButcher
PrincePawn
BlacKnight
UrZooked
Switch

1 ball

Edulus
Bunny
GrogMonster

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 28 Apr 2013, 08:23

EDIT; whatever I dont need your stupid nonsense ratings they never been accurate ever, count me in. GKG was right let my gaming do the talking.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » 28 Apr 2013, 09:53

I have suggestion. We can make poll for every player and let community decide (like I did for falcon). That will be shitload of polls, but we can do it.
Democracy in action.

Dantski · Post by **Dantski** » 28 Apr 2013, 13:17

Swap tirri and EW
Swap CRC and browning.
Drop half the gru players to 1 ball, all the TOAD players and sight.
Promote KABUKI to 6.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 28 Apr 2013, 14:47

ska,crc,ratking,evil jake, 3 balls

rabican 4 balls

ksize,fxmas,sasper,raper,stonecold,jotun 2 balls

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 28 Apr 2013, 15:06

Asmo- 1 baller

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 28 Apr 2013, 15:38

I agree, lower my rating to 1 ball please so someone will pick me up.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 28 Apr 2013, 16:42

Add me - 1 ball. Also should probably pin this and other important posts.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 28 Apr 2013, 20:39

just lol drunken. you do realize the more underrated you are, the more valuable to a team you become under this system? Not that I am suggesting that you are underrated, but if you think that, then you would keep your mouth shut so as to not draw anyone's attention to that and then just be quietly thanking grim in the back of your mind. Plenty of teams are going to be looking for underrated players, so you would have more options on what team you want to join.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 28 Apr 2013, 21:08

Dammit GKG stop giving away the game... you're just jealous of us non-5 ballers.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 28 Apr 2013, 21:11

under this new system, I am jealous of you, I really am. This system is a big disincentive for me to play, as everyone can see from the rules.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 28 Apr 2013, 21:16

I know, but just keep it to yourself so that the rest of us can have fun

I kid, but yeah I really don't know why people are arguing for *higher* ratings... there is no advantage to that.

ska · Post by **ska** » 28 Apr 2013, 21:29

If I thoroughly study blard's article, can I please be demoted to 3 balls?

par73 · Post by **par73** » 28 Apr 2013, 22:02

this entire ball rating system is proposed to shit on all 5 ballers (here listed are gkg, adren, and tirri)

absolutely fucken prejudiced

3 5-ballers
19 4-ballers

hey grim when you change the way your system works are you gunna inform everyone via PM or just post it on the forums in an announcement?

more importantly:
USING A BALL SYSTEM FOR MWC IS FAGGOTRY

SOMEONES BUTTHURT FOR NOT WINNING ONE OF THEIR OWN HOSTED TOURNAMENTS SINCE RIDING NC COATTAILS.
LAHL.

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 28 Apr 2013, 22:30

ska wrote:If I thoroughly study blard's article, can I please be demoted to 3 balls?

Lololol

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 28 Apr 2013, 23:10

GiantKillerGen wrote:just lol drunken. you do realize the more underrated you are, the more valuable to a team you become under this system? Not that I am suggesting that you are underrated, but if you think that, then you would keep your mouth shut so as to not draw anyone's attention to that and then just be quietly thanking grim in the back of your mind. Plenty of teams are going to be looking for underrated players, so you would have more options on what team you want to join.

I appreciate the sentiment I really do, but im not joining a team,I am making one.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 28 Apr 2013, 23:20

okay so that works even better for you since you are organizing the team, you being "underrated" allows you to create a better team roster. though i suppose your team roster probably doesn't have to worry about salary cap space anyway.

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 28 Apr 2013, 23:55

par73 wrote: USING A BALL SYSTEM FOR MWC IS FAGGOTRY

noblesteed · Post by **noblesteed** » 29 Apr 2013, 01:28

5 balls
GKG
TIRRI
Adrenaline

4 balls

East wind
Shaister
Ska
Sam
Limp
Cave
Crc
Arzenic
Dantski
Karma
Gekko
Bone
Cruniac
Paris
Absolut
Chengis
Kilgrath
Myrk
Ratking

3 balls

Duan
Browning
Demolition
Thalander
Rabican
August
Kryptos
Flatline
Slate
ProfessionaKiller
Homer
Hadiez
wwo
Dante
Enculator
Gamer
Qwerty
Ramirez
Stormrider
Captain
Mark
Cremisi
Ksiaze
Valentine
Muse
hmp
ten
asmo
Sasper
Rodekill
Pioneer (Rza)
Head Hunter
Father Xmas
Sormiron
Alk
Raper
StoneCold
Bronson
Honkey
Aki
RodeKi11
Jotun
Toxyn
Monty
Blonde
Khan
Zak

Tirri is no way 5 balls anymore, you didnt see him in TWS. Rk, kilg, limp, ska moved to 3. Demo and asmo to 4. Either way theres way too much variance between the 3 ballers. No disctincton between upper 3 and lower 3. Its just this big lump of motherfuckers. If you REALLLY want to limit rosters, split all players into two groups. One being players 4 balls and above, the other being everyone else. Limit rosters to either 3/4 of these elite players and then let teams form.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 29 Apr 2013, 01:53

This roster limitation is nonsense... the one 5 baller, two 4 baller thing is bullshit... can't even organize a semblance of the NC core based on this crap.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 29 Apr 2013, 03:16

ghengis is 4 but adren is 5? wtf?

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 29 Apr 2013, 03:18

adrenaline wrote:This roster limitation is nonsense... the one 5 baller, two 4 baller thing is bullshit... can't even organize a semblance of the NC core based on this crap.

I knew someone would bring this up. A lot of ppl who show up for MWC do so to play with their friends. I guess the roster cap makes it more competitive but it's going to turn a lot of ppl off. Personally though I couldn't care either way, I was just disappointed when I found out that Grim had once again chosen, "Hard Rock Hallelujah," by Lordi as the tourney theme song

grim · Post by **grim** » 29 Apr 2013, 07:06

Paris, do you wanna host MWC?

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 29 Apr 2013, 08:31

noblesteed wrote:3 balls

Rabican
Flatline
ten
Sasper
Father Xmas
Honkey

So i was just thinking if ....man.... what if 7 years ago or really anytime from 2001-2008 or whatever, I was seeing this in the future for realz.....like a truly real deja vu at the time. I probably would have stopped the drugs and alcohol and bad living right there and taken up a good christian lifestyle and then and well y'know my life could be so much better drugfree and stuff! This came 7 years too late.

Well worth reading these forums yeah.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » 29 Apr 2013, 14:20

adrenaline wrote:can't even organize a semblance of the NC core based on this crap.

Pretty sure that's the entire point of the system: completely dismantling namechangers.

ska · Post by **ska** » 29 Apr 2013, 14:49

Aki wrote:
adrenaline wrote:can't even organize a semblance of the NC core based on this crap.
Pretty sure that's the entire point of the system: completely dismantling namechangers.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 29 Apr 2013, 15:08

LOL ska

par73 · Post by **par73** » 29 Apr 2013, 20:23

grim wrote:Paris, do you wanna host MWC?

Listen, ball ratings for the purpose of a non-draft tournament is ridiculous.

See TWS2012 for more details.

Also, not listing yourself in the ball rating list's reasoning is because you are not playing... or?
otherwise I don't think participants of MWC should be inclined to bend their rosters to your will when you're not even going to a) participate b) have the same restrictions against you.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 29 Apr 2013, 20:23

Aki wrote:
adrenaline wrote:can't even organize a semblance of the NC core based on this crap.
Pretty sure that's the entire point of the system: completely dismantling namechangers.

No, that was the point of the Chi-Bullz

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 30 Apr 2013, 00:54

can you add seeker/bagrada to this list grim

grim · Post by **grim** » 30 Apr 2013, 09:15

par73 wrote:
grim wrote:Paris, do you wanna host MWC?

Listen, ball ratings for the purpose of a non-draft tournament is ridiculous.

See TWS2012 for more details.

Also, not listing yourself in the ball rating list's reasoning is because you are not playing... or?
otherwise I don't think participants of MWC should be inclined to bend their rosters to your will when you're not even going to a) participate b) have the same restrictions against you.

Yeah but do you wanna host MWC or not? I'm not on the list as it's the same list that I used for substitutes last year and I denied myself the right to sub. Not that I'm going to play now though.

Bagrada is already on the list (Bronson), Zak.

Keep posting your ratings here folks so we can get more ratings and tweek the ratings around to reflect reality better.

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 30 Apr 2013, 09:39

If people can't argue the ratings the way they want, they'll just ignore them. This is really only going to affect the top 2-3 teams anyway, so any kind of banning or suspension or whatever is simply going to fuck the tournament. The balance of power is not shifting because of this system; no game-changing player is joining a 2-trow team and making them a contender. All that's going to happen is that 3-ballers are not going to play because there are overrated 2-ballers taking their spots, or overrated 4's setting the 3-ball cap.

You can get the smartest, most active players to do the ratings, and it still won't prevent fucking over the late-comers at the end of May, when rosters are fucked if they're trying to leave spots open for some old buddy to show up. Thinking those guys are just going to band together is ludicrous.

It's like giving a terminal cancer patient homeopathic medicine. It might've been harmless in another context, but this is just shoveling dirt on the grave.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 30 Apr 2013, 10:05

That analogy is patently ludicrous.

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 30 Apr 2013, 13:45

just give up with this farce grim of ball/salary ratings your as hopeless as this girl

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMYHmfe8M1U[/youtube]

par73 · Post by **par73** » 30 Apr 2013, 16:24

grim wrote:
par73 wrote:
grim wrote:Paris, do you wanna host MWC?

Listen, ball ratings for the purpose of a non-draft tournament is ridiculous.

See TWS2012 for more details.

Also, not listing yourself in the ball rating list's reasoning is because you are not playing... or?
otherwise I don't think participants of MWC should be inclined to bend their rosters to your will when you're not even going to a) participate b) have the same restrictions against you.
Yeah but do you wanna host MWC or not? I'm not on the list as it's the same list that I used for substitutes last year and I denied myself the right to sub. Not that I'm going to play now though.

Bagrada is already on the list (Bronson), Zak.

Keep posting your ratings here folks so we can get more ratings and tweek the ratings around to reflect reality better.

I would only want to host MWC if I can work with people who are dedicated to making MWC fluent, competitive but casual, and enjoyable.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 30 Apr 2013, 17:01

grim wrote: Keep posting your ratings here folks so we can get more ratings and tweek the ratings around to reflect reality better.

So add me already (miss my post?)!

1 ball.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 30 Apr 2013, 17:09

Honestly if you want to prevent team stacking and maximize competitiveness, then the best thing to do is to just let everyone form their teams however they want first. Then take the ratings 1 level of abstraction higher by rating the whole of the team roster together. That would be much more accurate of a team's rating than trying to add individual player ratings together. The whole is not necessarily the sum of its parts. It also avoids all the effort, risk, and controversy of the nuances of getting the ratings right for individual players. Really sometimes it is impossible to get the rating right for individual players without the context of what team they are playing with. It is a lot easier to get the rating right for the entire team than it is for all of the players.

It also allows people to form their teams naturally as they always would and be able to play with their friends. If you see an overly stacked team, then reserve the right to veto it, but I haven't seen any team rosters that look too stacked to me right now, and I doubt there would be any in the future either. I think the most stacked team we could see at this point is if the traditional NP / tcox team formed together again, since both the championship team of the past couple years and NC have broken up somewhat.

empy · Post by **empy** » 30 Apr 2013, 20:16

I think im ready to move up to 3 ball ratings

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 30 Apr 2013, 20:42

this is no time for jokes, empy.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 30 Apr 2013, 21:10

I propose these changes:

tirri is 4 balls, he isn't active enough, doesn't care enough, and plays with his daughter on his lap during matches.

adrenaline is 4 balls, he is really good but his game awareness is not at the 5 ball level, GKG will attest to this.

ska is 3 balls, he cost NC the match vs SP last year, is not active at all and his care level is less than tirri's.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 30 Apr 2013, 21:51

East Wind and Ghengis are the best runner-up 5 ballers in this game.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 30 Apr 2013, 22:11

I disagree about the game awareness thing... though i can understand where you'd get that impression from a few of the tws games. I rarely play anymore and most of those maps i've either never played or only played a couple times, so i didnt really know the terrain. When I am focused/care enough I am fully aware of what's going on, I assure you. I've also had either the best or near best stats in every 2 team tourney in the last several years... so take whatever u want from that :/

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 30 Apr 2013, 22:21

adrenaline wrote:I disagree about the game awareness thing... though i can understand where you'd get that impression from a few of the tws games. I rarely play anymore and most of those maps i've either never played or only played a couple times, so i didnt really know the terrain. When I am focused/care enough I am fully aware of what's going on, I assure you. I've also had either the best or near best stats in every 2 team tourney in the last several years... so take whatever u want from that :/

You're easily in the top 3 for BC skills, no argument there.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 30 Apr 2013, 22:28

Please tell me this isn't the actual way you are going to choose/adjust ratings grim. Choose a select few who know what they are talking about and please don't be biased about it in selecting your friends instead of people who actually know whats going on. Danstski,GKG and Adren would be my suggestions (or you could just follow the perfect ratings of the stock rising/falling thread).

Edit: or it appears that all the post from TWS have been deleted/hidden?

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 30 Apr 2013, 22:32

I'd have no problem doing ratings, but I'd really rather do it on a 10-point scale... it would make much more sense and separate the low 3-ballers from the borderline 4-ballers...

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 30 Apr 2013, 22:40

10 point scale makes it more accurate for judging the skill of a player, but that would make rosters even more restricted than they already are. So if we have to use a salary cap I rather have it more broad using the 1-5 ball ratings so we can put together teams we would enjoy more.

also as stated before you should give a player on the borderline of 5-4 4-3 and 3-2 balls the benefit of the doubt and assign them the lower rating so they will be a asset as opposed to a hindrance in maximizing the salary cap of the roster.

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 30 Apr 2013, 23:33

I'm sorry, grim. I thought you said "continue posting your rantings".

grim · Post by **grim** » 01 May 2013, 10:43

I think I can count on that anyway. No need to ask for it.

sasper · Post by **sasper** » 01 May 2013, 12:53

the 5 ball rating system seems pretty reasonable to me. if you upped it to 10 balls i doubt there would be much difference in the final teams.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 02 May 2013, 00:51

Ratking should be a 4. And yes.... this system should be changed to 10 balls. There are too many 3's.