Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 06 Apr 2013, 06:12

Hey guys, public beta for the 1.8 patch is finally released! Go here:
http://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/m ... ublic-beta

As promised, watch the 1.8.0 Promo Video!

Personally I'm excited to see people try out the new mode, "King of the Map". I think it's definitely a breath of fresh air and would love to see it included in some future tournaments, so give it a try and let us know what you think.

Also please let us know about any bugs that you find. We know of a few minor ones, but ideally we want to find everything we can and get it fixed before the final release.

Enjoy!

par73 · Post by **par73** » 06 Apr 2013, 08:51

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU POST A FUCKING PATCH IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOURNAMENT RUNNING TIME
FUCK YOU AND FUCK MAGMA

THANKS

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 06 Apr 2013, 09:23

This is neato, but I still want one thing more: change the save folder location. Those of use w/ssds don't want constant writes and erases. Other legacy games have caught on to this; it's time for Myth to, as well!

SamTheButcher · Post by **SamTheButcher** » 06 Apr 2013, 11:36

Paris you may have a beef with Magma but put that aside and think about if nothing else they have put in a lot of hard work to improve Myth. If you look at the change log they have done a lot of good things. They do it for free and for the benefit of all of us. During a tourney may not be the best time for us in the tourney for Magma to release an update but we arent their only consideration. We arent the only people that play Myth. All we have to do is keep 1.7.2 for the rest of the tourney. The reason I am pointing this out is if too many people keep giving Magma shit all the time they may end up saying "Fuck it. Why do we bother." and quite updating and improving Myth. Probably not but still for anything they do that people think is wrong the do a lot of things right. So maybe just go a little easier on them.

Edit: Plus it may be cool to use the new game type King of the Map in this Tourney. Something new for everyone to see how it gets played in higher care factor tourney games. That is if 1.8 seems to be pretty clean of bugs. Which if that was used in a later round we should have a pretty good idea if it is.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » 06 Apr 2013, 11:59

Looks nice !
Really big step.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 06 Apr 2013, 14:23

New game type is sweet, and noticably less pause when leaving a room or starting a game. All in all, very nice update so far.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 06 Apr 2013, 15:29

Couple things based on about 1 min of use:

Choppy

The double tap # for on the spot formation change does not maintain direction... i.e. if i change from long line to circle to rabble then back to long line, the units are no longer facing the same direction and have actually moved. Keep repeating and you can probably slowly move across the map. Cool feature, but I think it needs some tweaking.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 06 Apr 2013, 18:31

par73 wrote:WHY THE *cruiser* WOULD YOU POST A FUCKING PATCH IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOURNAMENT RUNNING TIME

? First, it's a beta; the intention is to have the final out before MWC so that people can use KOTM if they wish this year. Thus we don't really have a choice... need to get the beta out sooner rather than later. Second, as you know by now, no gameplay changes as long as one or more people have 1.7.2 in the game. Hell if one person has 1.7.0 everyone reverts to 1.7.0 gameplay. Third, there's basically zero gameplay changes anyways in 1.8.

If you were kidding, disregard

wwo wrote:This is neato, but I still want one thing more: change the save folder location. Those of use w/ssds don't want constant writes and erases. Other legacy games have caught on to this; it's time for Myth to, as well!

I agree but for different reasons. SSD reads/writes for the size of files that Myth's saves/films are is basically irrelevant. On any decent SSD you can write 10GBs per day for 10+ years or more before running into any capacity reduction. The few kb that Myth might write are totally irrelevant compared to typical Windows traffic. TBH SSD endurance is mostly relevant to enterprise workloads like web and database servers.

The real reason games are moving save locations is because it is no longer acceptable for "user" accounts to have write privileges to installed game locations. All user-specific data is meant to go into either a library (Documents\My Games is typical) or per-user AppData. That also means that multiple users get their own Myth films/saves which would be desirable.

Agreed we need to do this at some point, but doing it in a portable way across many windows, mac and linux versions is not a trivial task, hence why it hasn't been done so far.

thisforumsucks wrote:New game type is sweet, and noticably less pause when leaving a room or starting a game. All in all, very nice update so far.

Yeah Melekor rewrite a lot of the tag loading code which makes everything from load the game initially to returning to the main menu to finishing games much quicker.

adrenaline wrote: Choppy

More-so than 1.7.2? On which specs/settings? Updated drivers? Sometimes giving your machine a reboot helps on this front if you've been running for a while too. Given equivalent settings between the two versions you shouldn't really see any major performance regressions.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 06 Apr 2013, 23:47

Haven't had time to do gameplay yet but everything is a lot snappier, nice.

Don't really know why you guys decided to put UT bar to middle of screen but makes to difference to me.

Extra zoom for films is cool, excited to have fear again.

dac · Post by **dac** » 07 Apr 2013, 00:30

ignore paris crying about the sanctity of his tourneys, paris actually dummies in his own tournaments. that lets you know how much all of us should respect their results.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Apr 2013, 00:52

1) I have never dummied in my own tournaments

2) if a host has 1.8, you can't join their host

that is the extent of my beta testing for now

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 07 Apr 2013, 00:52

punkUser wrote: I agree but for different reasons. SSD reads/writes for the size of files that Myth's saves/films are is basically irrelevant. On any decent SSD you can write 10GBs per day for 10+ years or more before running into any capacity reduction.

Consciously, I know this, but I was an early adopter of them and have that concern more out of habit than reason.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Apr 2013, 01:27

par73 wrote: 2) if a host has 1.8, you can't join their host

Untrue. There's an option for "allow old clients" that the host just has to check (and it defaults to on). It was only during private testing phases when pre 1.8 clients could not join.

wwo wrote: Consciously, I know this, but I was an early adopter of them and have that concern more out of habit than reason.

Yeah fair enough

In any case it's a good suggestion, I'll see what we can do for the next version. Just need to figure out how it all works on Mac and Linux too and figure out a solution for Win9x (which is still supported :S).

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Apr 2013, 04:48

ok punk, something i have noticed so far is that hitting "f" (the default preset selection) no longer centers my camera on the preset. Yes I know shift-f now does it, or "h" centers the camera, but for me this is not acceptable. I use that key to do two things at once. When I don't want to center the camera on the preset I use the mouse to cycle the preset. These two things in combination allow me to do whatever I need very quickly.

You need to make this as an option for players to customize to their play style if you are going to change it like this.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Apr 2013, 05:52

also not a fan of the unit trading window being in the center of the screen. not even sure the reasoning behind that change.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Apr 2013, 06:17

GiantKillerGen wrote:also not a fan of the unit trading window being in the center of the screen. not even sure the reasoning behind that change.

It has to do with the fact that the status bar is now scale-able to any resolution/window size so the UT dialog has to become "undocked". Melekor can explain more. Given that it's a modal dialog box (i.e. you can't do anything until it goes away anyways), it seems sensible for it to be in the center... It actually makes more sense this way too so that you still can see/have access to the status bar (and restart/rehost) without having to close the UT box first.

I'd understand an argument if the traded units updated while you made the changes, but they don't, so there's nothing really useful to see before you're done UT anyways. Thus I'm not sure I get the complaint other than "it's different".

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 07 Apr 2013, 06:37

I can think of one potential argument. Those units that are not tradable, specific to a map, can often influence a trade. Like if you're given a free heron hero, it might make you consider getting more puss. Or, like on gimble, you're given free wights; there's no mention in the UT dialog, but if you know you got one for free, maybe it would influence your trade.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Apr 2013, 07:44

NewMutator wrote:Those units that are not tradable, specific to a map, can often influence a trade.

That's true, un-tradable units are relevant. Spit-balling here... what about just moving it up further towards the top - maybe centered on the top 1/3 subdivision? For most modern resolutions that should avoid overlapping the status bar I think, although it probably will at 640x480.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 07 Apr 2013, 10:00

That's probably okay. Only one way to find out, eh?

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 07 Apr 2013, 13:43

So am I allowed to test 1.8 and give feedback now? ~8^)

I will rip the heart and soul out of this new 1.8 beta a bring it to its knees. Then I shall report my findings.

Why has nobody commented on what GKG just said?

Options = GUD. Forcing changes on us = BAD

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 07 Apr 2013, 13:48

BTW, maybe set up a time on these forums to get a bunch of 1.8 players to test? It would be smart to get 16 players all with 1.8 to test in the same game....What I saw last night was a buncha party poopers that tried 1.8 for 2 seconds and disliked...I dunno AWESOMENESS?

Then on the OTHER HAND in an EMPTY ROOM, I saw the usual suspects (Melekor, Myrd, Punk, ...umm some other guy or 2) all playing THE DARK CAMPAIGN...instead of like, shit everybody plays, to you know....like to TEST what everybody plays.... not some obscure plugin I have not seen played in YEARS.

So maybe set a time on here and try to get a buncha people together so there can be a 16 PLAYER 1.8 game going. Because unless it happened LAST NIGHT, I KNOW for a fact magma has not tested with max players under 1.8

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Apr 2013, 14:09

yes punk, what LN said is very true. You know what else is true? Sometimes you need to be able to scan the map during PT to know what you are going to trade for terrain, flag locations, items on the ground, etc. So you actually do want to be able to see. Pretty sure that was bungie's original intent too. Sometimes standard units have non-standard amounts of ammo on them too unique to that map. You need to be able to check these things, and that window is in the way. You need to either change it back or make it an option, it is really annoying. If you are going to use the status bar to leave the game, then who cares if you have to cancel out of trade. Making that change for the status bar is not good, I never run into that problem.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 07 Apr 2013, 16:21

The points by LN and GKG are well-taken.

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 07 Apr 2013, 16:27

It'd be nice if the display changing to some random ass setting for the intro/pregame/m.net lobby screens would get fixed already. Or at least stop affecting my display when I quit the Myth application.
My comp runs in 1920x1200 and I play myth on 1280x720, both of which use my whole screen. For any screen but the actual game the display gets changed to some random resolution that uses less than the whole screen. By itself, not a big deal and I wouldn't give a shit. However this affects my desktop as well and ends up moving all my desktop items off the screen, which means I have to restart my computer and then manually put the desktop items back where they were. This problem still happens if I play Myth at the same resolution my monitor is set at. I'm on Mac OS Lion.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » 07 Apr 2013, 16:32

Myrk wrote: >My comp runs in 1920x1200 and I play myth on 1280x720,
>both of which use my whole screen.
> I'm on Mac OS Lion.

holy shit myrk

Myrd · Post by **Myrd** » 07 Apr 2013, 16:36

Myrk wrote:It'd be nice if the display changing to some random ass setting for the intro/pregame/m.net lobby screens would get fixed already. Or at least stop affecting my display when I quit the Myth application.
My comp runs in 1920x1200 and I play myth on 1280x720, both of which use my whole screen. For any screen but the actual game the display gets changed to some random resolution that uses less than the whole screen. By itself, not a big deal and I wouldn't give a shit. However this affects my desktop as well and ends up moving all my desktop items off the screen, which means I have to restart my computer and then manually put the desktop items back where they were. This problem still happens if I play Myth at the same resolution my monitor is set at. I'm on Mac OS Lion.

Out of curiosity, why don't you run Myth at 1920x1200? If it's at the same resolution as your regular desktop, it won't change your icon positions.

(Unfortunately, without taking control of your screen so that you can Cmd-Tab out of Myth, there's no way for Myth to use a smaller full-screen resolution than the desktop one without causing Mac OS X to lose your icon positions.)

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 07 Apr 2013, 18:25

Myrd wrote:
Myrk wrote:This problem still happens if I play Myth at the same resolution my monitor is set at.
Out of curiosity, why don't you run Myth at 1920x1200? If it's at the same resolution as your regular desktop, it won't change your icon positions.

Except it does, because like I said the resolution gets changed to something else for non-game screens.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Apr 2013, 21:37

GiantKillerGen wrote: Making that change for the status bar is not good, I never run into that problem.

Sorry I wasn't clear... the change was not so that you can click the status bar, it was because the status bar now works in arbitrary resolutions/sizes, which was necessary with the increasing number of high DPI screens coming out, and to support windowed mode resizing, etc.

But the point is well taken about the UT positioning... seems like at the very least we could just move it right up to the top again which would be equivalent. Can't be "docked" again, but if people don't mind it just overlapping we can certainly put it up at the top. Will talk to the other folks...

Seems like the 'f' not centering thing could probably just be reverted. I think it was a request at some point to make it more useful to someone and no one complained during the testing phase, but hey, that's what the public beta is for

Again, will talk to folks.

Myrk wrote:This problem still happens if I play Myth at the same resolution my monitor is set at. I'm on Mac OS Lion.

Was gonna suggest "borderless windowed" mode on Windows, but I'm not familiar with the Mac windowing code, sorry

Maybe post at PM.net and Myrd should be able to help. [Edit] NM he's here

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Apr 2013, 22:14

keep in mind you can always msg me (you have my gmail) for outside opinions on if something is a good idea or not. might save a lot of time and effort before a bad idea gets implemented, or a good idea implemented poorly.

browning · Post by **browning** » 07 Apr 2013, 22:56

Error: Could not find all the foundation files. Insert your CD or do a full install.

i have 1.7.2 the other 1.8 betas worked fine

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Apr 2013, 23:51

GiantKillerGen wrote:keep in mind you can always msg me (you have my gmail) for outside opinions on if something is a good idea or not. might save a lot of time and effort before a bad idea gets implemented, or a good idea implemented poorly.

Oh sure, and to be clear, I made a list of stuff before we released the beta that people were likely going to have a reaction to, and there has yet to really be anything so far that was not high on that list

But sometimes it's important to get people to try stuff our and play devil's advocate just to solidify the facts and opinions. That's largely what the public beta is for, so it's working as intended so far

That said, GKG do you have tester access? If you'd like to be able to give feedback earlier in the process we can give you access to the test builds.

Browning: what OS? Did you make sure to run the file (it's an installer now) and ensure that you selected the proper Myth directory to install it?

browning · Post by **browning** » 08 Apr 2013, 00:06

Windows XP, I ran the installer and selected the correct folder.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 08 Apr 2013, 00:55

Can you make a screenshot of your Myth directory? Should have "Myth II 1.8 Public Beta.exe", "Myth II 1.7.2.exe" and then all the regular directories under it (tags, plugins, etc).

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 08 Apr 2013, 01:52

When I login with 1.8 a "Guest 0" account with my login and quote appears at top of player list with a red check over the icon, sort of like how mythchat used to work.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 08 Apr 2013, 02:21

Milk Man wrote:When I login with 1.8 a "Guest 0" account with my login and quote appears at top of player list with a red check over the icon, sort of like how mythchat used to work.

Huh, yeah I see that too... will look into it.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Apr 2013, 02:45

how do people feel about an option that tells your arty units (dorfs and locks) to not fire until told to? Essentially preventing auto-fires that have killed countless friendly units, but also creating possibility of running up on unsuspecting arty.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 08 Apr 2013, 03:56

GiantKillerGen wrote:how do people feel about an option that tells your arty units (dorfs and locks) to not fire until told to? Essentially preventing auto-fires that have killed countless friendly units, but also creating possibility of running up on unsuspecting arty.

Just to note here myself so I don't forget as well... an option is maybe to add a flag to units for mapmakers that causes them to have this "not autofire" behavior, if there doesn't already exist one. Then someone could make a tagset with it enabled on whatever units make sense.

Pyro · Post by **Pyro** » 08 Apr 2013, 07:31

Such a flag already exists, punkuser. Open Fear, find and open the monster tag you want to alter. Click on the flags button. Check "Use Extended" if it isn't checked and then "Doesn't Auto-target Enemies". Click OK and you are done. You can test it quick from your local in single player or in TCP games (the metaserver ignores most of the local folder). Build a plugin out of it when you are done (Fear's menu options).

As for the F key not centering the camera on the units, then I guess you won't like alternate preset recall as you no longer have the F key for presets. You can however double tap a number key to center the camera on that preset (in alternate preset recall mode). For more key combos, go to your prefs and click on the "?" button to load the help PDF. Use the bookmarks if you want to navigate faster.

browning · Post by **browning** » 08 Apr 2013, 10:40

here's the screenshot of my m2 directory

i thought the spacebar key prevented units from auto-targeting

you can sneak up on unsuspecting arty without taking damage, but you have to draw fire and it's a bit trickier

on some occasions you can try to induce friendly fire from idle arty

on some rarer occasions you have a split second to cancel your auto-fire

i think the current way adds more components to the game, but it's not a big deal

enculator · Post by **enculator** » 08 Apr 2013, 11:30

I think you should add a "deadly wildlife" mode where all animals explode like grub wights if killed.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 08 Apr 2013, 11:53

Lul I think someone has just been lurking around with Myth Chat.

Probably capital.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 08 Apr 2013, 13:24

Also is you guys have time could you add a search field for meshes like you did for plugins? Would be nice for hosting from big mappacks like the one for ffa league.

And of course...

In game mute plz.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Apr 2013, 13:45

Pyro wrote:As for the F key not centering the camera on the units, then I guess you won't like alternate preset recall as you no longer have the F key for presets. You can however double tap a number key to center the camera on that preset (in alternate preset recall mode). For more key combos, go to your prefs and click on the "?" button to load the help PDF. Use the bookmarks if you want to navigate faster.

I don't get it. Why would the F key have anything to do with alternate preset recall. It should still cycle through the presets same as normal. That would be a reason why you would want to use the F key (to center on the units) instead of any preset recall.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 08 Apr 2013, 18:34

Pyro wrote:Such a flag already exists, punkuser.

Ah great, I was wondering about that. Thus GKG you should be able to get zak to just put it on all the relevant units you want to not autofire (arty) int he GKG tagset and see how it works.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 08 Apr 2013, 22:30

I said this before a month or so ago but.. When you use H or presets to center on a selection it would be really helpful if the camera would face the SAME direction as the unit or selection. This would be super useful in game, and for keeping track of multiple things in different areas in films. O BTW can we get the ability to MAKE presets during films? That would be super handy for keeping tabs on stuff all over the map.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 09 Apr 2013, 00:11

As promised, here's the video showing some of the new features:
http://youtu.be/uXJwsdmtxFE

I don't have a lot of experience with video editing, so sorry for the amateurish parts... hopefully you get the idea in any case

browning · Post by **browning** » 09 Apr 2013, 00:21

any idea on what's causing the issue for me?

how about having a key that, when held, displays the health bars of all the units on the screen

we currently have the tab key but it's pretty useless

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 09 Apr 2013, 00:43

browning wrote:any idea on what's causing the issue for me?

No I'm not entirely sure, can you repost this over at project magma forums and we can get some of the other devs to help. Are you just double-clicking on the relevant EXE there or using a shortcut? If the latter, ensure that the working directory is the same one as the EXE (i.e. the Myth directory).

Also where does this all live relative to the rest of your hard drive? In Program Files or elsewhere?

browning wrote: how about having a key that, when held, displays the health bars of all the units on the screen

we currently have the tab key but it's pretty useless

You mean caps lock, but for enemies too? Hmm...

browning · Post by **browning** » 09 Apr 2013, 00:49

Drive>Games>M2, I'm double-clicking on the exe. i'll post at magma forums

punkUser wrote:You mean caps lock, but for enemies too? Hmm...

yes, but not permanently, only when the key is depressed

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 09 Apr 2013, 01:18

Just tried it out.

Cycle presets doesn't center the selection. This is fucking retarded. Name the moron who thought removing that ability was a good idea. You coop-ers and mazzers need to get actual myth players in your pre-build chat sessions before you go fucking up shit.

magma

myther