Conference System & Alternate Hosts

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 24 Jun 2013, 19:50

EDIT: Due to a dearth of alternate hosts the conference system is currently on hold.

So in the interest of allowing all internationals to participate in FFA League this coming year, I'd like to institute a conference system.

FFA League: Pacific Conference would be played from around 10 pm EST to Midnight EST.

FFA League: Atlantic Conference would be played from around 4 pm EST to 6 pm EST.

You wouldn't necessarily have to play in one conference or the other, all points will be aggregated no matter which conference you happen to play in that week, you could even play in both.

I would need more hosts to sign up. If I can get some more hosts to participate FFA League will be biweekly with both the Atlantic and Pacific conferences meeting every week.

I know it seems like a bit early to be determining such things, but I'll be away from internet from July 11 till the end of August so please contact me if you'd like to help host FFA League this Fall.

dac · Post by **dac** » 24 Jun 2013, 20:11

if I'm around I'll setup an autohost for it.

cant guarantee anythng though

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 25 Jun 2013, 02:01

Autohost doesn't work because 2nd place picks next map/game.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 28 Jun 2013, 06:04

What is the time frame of the FFA League looking like? I will have a host until the beginning of September.

pallidice · Post by **pallidice** » 28 Jun 2013, 23:48

i could probably do it milk depending on if i have a job by that point in time or not.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 29 Jun 2013, 05:18

FFA league will begin in September par

Cool palli, I'll contact you when the time comes.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 26 Aug 2013, 15:34

Doesn't look like I have the personnel to implement the conference system

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 28 Sep 2013, 07:12

I just moved into my current place, and have the ability to host. While I don't want to join the league, I would like to help keep myth going. If you need a host, and don't mind it would be marked as server is observer, (making the limit 15 players) let me know.

I would also be fine with spending time helping players who don't know how to remove a firewall working through it.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 29 Sep 2013, 08:40

this is a brilliant idea. the current ffa league time is set to 5:30 - 8:30 EST on Thursdays.
We should open up a bracket, (we would need a host willing to play for 3 hours [could proly find a mazzer lahl]) that players from 12:30 - 3:30 on Thursday as well, as long as it's a European host. that way, there are more chances to participate in the ffa league (you could even open the points max to the original 300 total pts), and europeans are not excluded. I have class until 6:30 on thursdays, so i am automatically excluded from a hour's worth of games that i would otherwise be participating in.
I think slate told me of some interest to host such a bracket, but im sure this could only be occasional as slate would be invested in this tournament differently than TO Milkman. he would also need players present who knew the rules, as a plus.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 30 Sep 2013, 04:40

Omnicron could you tell me a bit more about your availability?

Could you either host from 8:30-10:30 PM (pacifica conference) or from 4:30-6:30 (atlantis conference)? Ideally you could host the atlantis conference on some day other than Monday or Wednesday so PK could play. Part of your responsibilities would be adding each game to the FFA Tourney on this site, allowing me to score the games later.

The time would be shortened to 2 hours per week since two days of ffa league would be available (this would help lighten the burden on me greatly). I would continue to host on Wednesdays as its the only day available to me.

Thanks for your interest!

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 01 Oct 2013, 02:57

This times are server time? Being EDT I believe.

The 8:30-10:30 slot sounds like it would work a lot better for me. I could do any weekday but Friday and Tuesday. Fridays and weekends are no good because I travel out of town then. Tuesday because I have class until 9:00 pm. Hopefully one of these days works.

I just got my service a few weeks ago, and have not had any problems like random disconnects or anything.

But I am on the east coast of the US. And I think I had one person from New Zealand say they had some lag on my host once. No one else though. I have 2.5 MB/s down, 500 KB/s up. Or, as the ISP likes to advertise, 20 Mb/s down, 4 Mb/s up. These are also the speeds, or higher, I get on testing websites during high demand hours.

If it doesn't sound like it would work out sorry to get your hopes up.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 01 Oct 2013, 03:49

Well Thursday 8:30-10:30 would be awesome. However, I don't know much about networks and what not, but isn't your connection pretty terrible? Does it even matter in a game like myth, punkUser? I get 35 down and 5 up on speedtests, but I also live in the city.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 01 Oct 2013, 04:44

500 KB/s up is more than enough for a game like myth, it's the latency that matters not the bandwidth. You have to remember we played this game on 56k that had about 4 KB/s up. I remember when I got my ADSL with 128 kb/s up my host was godly. So if the ping is good the game will be good, bandwidth doesn't matter otherwise I would have the best host here with my 100 MB/s upload, but I don't because I'm so far away that the ping is garbage.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 01 Oct 2013, 06:16

Right, what Arsenal said.

There's really not a good way to determine the line "quality" between two people without just trying it. Note that the ingame ping is much more indicative of the experience... the lobby one - even when it works - is pretty useless.

Obviously anyone hosting should have a decent enough computer to maintain >>60fps at all times to ensure smooth gameplay for everyone as well. In the case of Myth though, that's anything from the last decade pretty much... but yeah.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 01 Oct 2013, 12:09

OK awesome.

I think we'll keep things the same this week since it's short notice, but can you confirm that you will host Thursday 8:30-10:30 server time next week? If so I'll have punk add you to the organizers list.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 01 Oct 2013, 13:57

He doesn't need to be an organizer to host the games... just look up his username after and it's pretty easy to find the relevant ones (or he can just let you know). That's what I've done for most of the tournaments so far even without being in the majority of the games.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 01 Oct 2013, 17:29

Thursday, 8:30-10:30 EDT pm. Confirmed.

If people have a miserable time with my connection I will let you know.

Also, MM you are spoiled on these new high speed connections.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 01 Oct 2013, 18:50

Haha don't worry I played for years from Italy on my 33.6k modem, I EARNED THIS SHIT.

This week we will have the usual Wednesday 3 hour session & I will announce the new conferences immediately after.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 02 Oct 2013, 01:17

punk do you think that on Thursday you could change the blue bar to:

FFA LEAGUE: Atlantic Conference every Wednesday 4:30-6:30 EST, Pacific Conference every Thursday 8:30-10:30 EST. Show and play!

Also, could you add Omnicron as a tourney organizer & forward him the explanation of how to add rounds/games?

The new format for naming rounds will be "Week X: Y Conference." So next week, Omni, your round should be named "Week 4: Pacific Conference."

par73 · Post by **par73** » 02 Oct 2013, 02:34

wednesday 4:30-6:30, perfect, that will be one game for I :/

also milk i talked to slate, i think he's kinda interested in possibly hosting another conference.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 02 Oct 2013, 03:16

You couldn't make the thursday time par? SlatE could be an alternate host for the atlantic conference.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 02 Oct 2013, 11:47

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ wrote:punk do you think that on Thursday you could change the blue bar to:

FFA LEAGUE: Atlantic Conference every Wednesday 4:30-6:30 EST, Pacific Conference every Thursday 8:30-10:30 EST. Show and play!

Actually, put it up friday to avoid confusion if you please.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 02 Oct 2013, 13:08

in my experience, Omicron's host is pretty shit... but I only plan on playing on Wednesdays, so doesn't really matter. Still at 5:30 tonight?

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 02 Oct 2013, 15:36

adrenaline wrote:Still at 5:30 tonight?

Yup

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 02 Oct 2013, 21:10

It just occurred to be that it would be better if Omni could host the Atlantic division on Thursdays, so that PK could play.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:53

adrenaline wrote:in my experience, Omicron's host is pretty shit... but I only plan on playing on Wednesdays, so doesn't really matter. Still at 5:30 tonight?

The last time I hosted a game you played was about 3 years ago. I have moved three times since then.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:54

Where do you live Omi, what kind of connection do you have?

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:55

adrenaline wrote:in my experience, Omicron's host is pretty shit... but I only plan on playing on Wednesdays, so doesn't really matter. Still at 5:30 tonight?

F*&# you too by the way.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:55

Omicron wrote:This times are server time? Being EDT I believe.

The 8:30-10:30 slot sounds like it would work a lot better for me. I could do any weekday but Friday and Tuesday. Fridays and weekends are no good because I travel out of town then. Tuesday because I have class until 9:00 pm. Hopefully one of these days works.

I just got my service a few weeks ago, and have not had any problems like random disconnects or anything.

But I am on the east coast of the US. And I think I had one person from New Zealand say they had some lag on my host once. No one else though. I have 2.5 MB/s down, 500 KB/s up. Or, as the ISP likes to advertise, 20 Mb/s down, 4 Mb/s up. These are also the speeds, or higher, I get on testing websites during high demand hours.

If it doesn't sound like it would work out sorry to get your hopes up.

Pittsburgh.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:57

par73 wrote:Where do you live Omi, what kind of connection do you have?

I host a lot of gladiators and Mazz, so if I lagged for those guys I am sure they would be screaming bloodying murder about my host killing their units.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:58

heh adren is closer to your host than me

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 00:59

On Thursday I get out of class at 4:15, and it takes me about 30 mins to get home. So that time slot won't work.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 01:00

par73 wrote:heh adren is closer to your host than me

When I last hosted with adren I was in Wyoming, sharing a connection with a WoW addict roommate.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 03 Oct 2013, 01:16

you tried hosting last week omi... your ping was atrocious.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 03 Oct 2013, 01:20

here's an idea: we make a "euro division" as well as this other possible division.

"Eastern Bracket" or "European Bracket", however you have it.

I nominate Slate, Gekko and the Professional Killer to host this bracket. only one bracket per division gets hosted each week, and while they alternate who will host what and when, it will provide flexibility in case one or two cannot commit to a certain week.
Ideal time is somewhere between 10AM-5PM EST, i suggest Friday (as pK cannot make wed and mon)

Milk, you should keep hosting the bracket you have been.
"Atlantic Bracket" or "Central Bracket"
This has been set to 5:30 PM - 8:30 PM EST.

Omnicron, and Drunken Deer, could host the
"Western Bracket" for players in Australia, New Zealand, Pacific US Coast, Japan, China, et al.

Perhaps the "Pacific Bracket"
9PM-2 AM EST would be the ideal times for this bracket.
I would be able to be around and help assist omnicron in learning the rules and hosting for the first few weeks.

Maximum time per bracket should be 3 to 3 and a half hours, minimum should be 2 hours. it might be better for the newer hosts to just take on hosting 2 hour brackets until they feel comfortable doing it, or they have the extra hour or so available.

We won't know how this may work out until later, but as of right now the "Atlantic/Central" bracket time sucks for all euros, sucks for aussies waking up at 5:30 in the morning, and sucks for me because i can literally only make 2/3 of the games (i have class 5:00-6:30 which edges into the 5:30-8:30 time frame).

Why does this suck for me?
Adren has 45 losses, but is leading the tournament at the moment with a huge abundance of points and 16 wins.
I have 11 wins, 31 losses. Add that together, I've played in 42 total games in this tournament.
I've played in less games than adren has lost.

So in my self interest,
and I'm sure it's in the interest of the other players who have not played more than 45 games (everyone except adren, milk, zagon, funky; 30+ players),
I propose the idea above.

You might also want to add 50 points to the point cap per division added.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 05:24

punkUser wrote:...Note that the ingame ping is much more indicative of the experience... the lobby one - even when it works - is pretty useless...

adrenaline wrote:you tried hosting last week omi... your ping was atrocious.

And since you didn't actually play in my games, well, punkUser already said it.

But you are right, if my connection doesn't work for the people then it simply doesn't work, and I wouldn't want to waste their time playing on it, or my time hosting it.

People in my games either lie to me that they don't have lag, or they don't have lag. My in game pings are about 100 ms, not great, but it seems to work. I am on a laptop for myth, and I might actually drag out this desktop I have to try the hosting on it. It has the same specs as my laptop, but it might do better. I hope the host works for them, because if it does I didn't just waste your and my time in this thread.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 03 Oct 2013, 05:46

100ms is fine for Myth. 200ms is totally fine too frankly. Once you start to get to 300ish and beyond most players will start to notice a bit of input lag. But remember, Myth was designed for modems where no one got better than 200 or so

Thus there is built-in lag in the animations and netcode.

Dantski · Post by **Dantski** » 03 Oct 2013, 11:52

punkUser wrote:100ms is fine for Myth. 200ms is totally fine too frankly. Once you start to get to 300ish and beyond most players will start to notice a bit of input lag. But remember, Myth was designed for modems where no one got better than 200 or so Thus there is built-in lag in the animations and netcode.

It really depends on your skill level and what you're used to. 200ms is not fine if you have to do heavy micro with trow or lots of other situations. I'm not saying you can't play alright with 200ms but quite often it can make quite a difference. There's a good reason why when I played ska in 5 fetchball games with alternating hosts that he won all 3 games hosted by an American and I won both hosted by a European. 300ms + is pretty much impossible to dodge or react and isn't worth playing if you plan on winning.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 15:47

Slate just played on a host of mine, 1v1, and he said he had 200ish in game ping.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 03 Oct 2013, 16:31

Sure, there are situations where 100 vs 200 is noticeable, but you can't compare this to other games since - as I mentioned - there is a built-in amount of lag in the myth engine/networking code such that pings below a certain level do not result in faster response. This lag is there even in single player games.

You can't compare it to other games, and you guys have only seen the "real" pings since 1.8

Thus realize that you'll have to calibrate the experience based on those numbers, not any preconceptions about what they mean in other games or in terms of lobby "pings".

So yes I agree that there are cases where it can matter, but for the most part up to 200 or so is not very noticeable even when microing fairly heavily. Certainly 300 is getting to be a problem, as I noted.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 03 Oct 2013, 17:54

OK I've reached some decisions.

First I think that I don't want to split FFA League into more than two conferences. One of the goals of the league is to bring players together and I feel that 3+ conferences would dilute the player base overmuch.

Second, I want to emphasize that what I need is not so much an alternate host but a facilitator. What I mean is that it does not matter who hosts, this can be sorted out among the players, so long as someone is present each week to add the game IDs to the tournament so that I can score them later. This person would also have to ensure that the three game suspensions for bad behavior are served. So anyone can host but someone or a team of someones would have to be there every week.

Third, what I want, specifically, is someone who can commit to playing FFA League and serving as facilitator between 4-6 est someday other than Monday or Wednesday, which are the days PK cannot play. Preferably this person would have a good host for both European and East Coast players. This will allow me to hold the Wednesday FFA League from 8:30-10:30, which is more convenient for me and would better allow West Coasters, Australians, and Japanese to participate.

In short, please let me know if you are able to serve as facilitator 4-6 pm EST on any day other than Monday or Wednesday. Until we find someone to take this conference in hand FFA League will proceed as before.

Omicron · Post by **Omicron** » 03 Oct 2013, 21:00

Well, I cannot do that time on those days. Hopefully one of these other guys can make it. I'll try to swing by your game time Milk Man to play some time.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 04 Oct 2013, 10:00

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ wrote: In short, please let me know if you are able to serve as facilitator 4-6 pm EST on any day other than Monday or Wednesday. Until we find someone to take this conference in hand FFA League will proceed as before.

4-6 still sucks for euros, et al. i think your tournament would be better off at havin a facilitator at a 2-4 or 12-2 bracket instead.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 04 Oct 2013, 14:17

4-6 is 10 pm - midnight for Western Europeans. Considering Europeans eat dinner at around 8 or 9 I don't see how this sucks. It also allows east coasters who can't play at the later spot to get an hour in... I'm not sure if a conference comprised entirely of Europeans would get a good turn out.

zagon · Post by **zagon** » 06 Oct 2013, 15:54

right now we have been playing 3 hours 430-730 CST not two hours. the time zone works good. we have had a decent showing most weeks

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 06 Oct 2013, 16:00

The new system would have two days of two hour blocks, so 4 hours a week. Wednesday 8:30-10:30 EST and some other day 4-7 EST. Though we have had good showings I think we could include even more of the community.

All of this is still just speculative though. Until someone steps up FFA League will continue as is.

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 11 Oct 2013, 04:45

Well changes in my schedule have forced my hand.

Until further notice FFA League will be split into the America Conference, on Wednesdays from 8:30-10:30m pm, and Barbarian Conference, on Fridays from 11am - 1pm. I will be hosting both conferences.

I will try to have punk Change the bluebar starting Saturday.

Father Xmas · Post by **Father Xmas** » 11 Oct 2013, 11:14

does the new conference start today ?

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 11 Oct 2013, 17:13

Next week