GoS + Marius

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 21 Jun 2013, 15:04

punk has already contributed more of his time to the community in the past month than PPE ever has in his 6 or so years of hosting mariusnet. That's a fact, and the significance of that should be undeniable (yet there will still be stubbornness that prevails in some). Most of you don't realize that punk is adding a new little feature to his server / website like once or twice a week. He even has a good front-end web guy, friend of his, helping him with this shit. Here is just an example of something he just added like yesterday. Remember that "View Users" button that didn't do anything before on games.gateofstorms.net? Well now it does something:

http://games.gateofstorms.net/users

BAM, there you go, stats just like Mariusnet had. Actually it is better because it has damage received (a new stat never recorded correctly before 1.8), the nifty sorting on each column, and it can filter games from being counted for spectators (defined as people with no stats). That is 1 major marius feature replaced / improved upon already, and that was just while we have been having this discussion. And with the marius website down, this is now a feature that mariusnet doesn't even have right now.

And you guys don't even see all of it, he has been improving the tournament section, and other things as well. You guys just don't see all of this happening like I do because I am using this stuff right now for my 1v1 tourney. However people will eventually start taking notice more and more as we all get more familiar with the server and its website in the coming weeks and months.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 21 Jun 2013, 15:39

6 years? more like 12 (give or take a year) haha... it started up soon after Bungie stopped their TFL server. Not sure if PPE ran it from the start or inherited it from Conner and Marius along the way, however... but PPE has definitely been involved far longer than 6 years. The fact that he has done little in terms of development is irrelevant... mariusnet always had more than ample features. It wasn't until the development of 1.8 and the idea of even more features that it was even an issue. Plus, he's hosted a stable server for this long and never asked for a thing in return. I think it's unfair to say he's done nothing... he's done 1000% more than he had to, that's for sure. And that's a hell of a lot more than 99% of the community has done.

I'm not saying I'm pro-mnet though. I know what server changes have done to the community in the past, and it's never been a good thing... but I really like what punkUser is doing with GoS... I think it's definitely the server of the future, but I think it should be a slow transition... that said, I think MWC matches SHOULD be played on GoS, and rabble/FFA kept to mnet.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 21 Jun 2013, 16:07

PPE didn't run it from the start, Marius and Conner did (hence the name Marius.net). Yes, he inherited it, I am not sure when but I presumed it was when, as pyro referred to it, "Marius.net 2.0" came online. So obviously that was the 6 years I was talking about. Marius.net 2.0 is a spiritual successor sharing the same name, and perhaps built off the code of the first one, but it is a different server than the one started 12 years ago. Don't confuse the two. If you really think about it, Marius 1.0, Playmyth, and Marius 2.0 all lasted about 6 years each. I guess it only makes sense that the time on this one is just about up.

I am not an expert on PPE's history, but pretty sure he had little to nothing to do with its development. I haven't heard otherwise, and what further suggests that to me is that typically guys who would have put in so much time over the years into something, would have shown a little bit more of a fuck about it or the people using it. Marius and Conner had that, PPE didn't. Plus I remember whenever there was a problem, he always needed to call Connor to fix it, and Conner would come out of his long absences just to do so. It has been my impression that he has only provided the hosting needs for it because he was the most logical and convenient choice since he already had a box, and planned to keep the box running for quite some time. The extent of his responsibility ended at the point of just making sure the server was responding. Pyro correct me here if you know I am mistaken in anyway.

And it is relevant that he hasn't done anything, because he has actually actively blocked other people from trying to contribute to it. If you are going to do that, then it should be expected that you are going to do something yourself. I don't entirely fault PPE for that, because his money making website is also on that box and he isn't going to give away access to that to some myther. However at the same time, I have a feeling there are ways for him to allow others to contribute without giving away access to his box, but would have required a little bit of his time which he no doubt was not going to do.

In any case the same reason that made it so easy for PPE to host it at no cost to himself (i.e. him already having the server hardware and resources needed, which I have no doubt is the only reason he volunteered to do it) is also the community's biggest crutch since he won't let anyone else touch it.

The marius website finally came up for me, but is still back to where it was before going down. It is slow as shit, and none of the features work properly yet. Progress maybe, who knows.

And yea, if people want MWC stats, which is something people bring up every single year, they are going to have to play the matches on GoS.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 21 Jun 2013, 16:09

Guys, I live less than an hour away from PPE. Say the word and I'll TP his house and spray paint MWC jargon all over his car. And I'll take a piss in his flower garden.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 21 Jun 2013, 17:19

You're ranting against nothing, no reasonable person denies that punkuser has interest in developing his server.

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 22 Jun 2013, 00:36

My god....21 pages.

Pyro · Post by **Pyro** » 22 Jun 2013, 02:34

It is hard to remember things from those days. There were so many sources with such info, but eventually those sites or people disappear and few remain. The MBO site (http://myth.bungie.org/) still has news archives from those days. Use the search function to find stuff about marius or anything myth related.

Looking at them Mnet opened in August 2001. Some time in 2002 Conner and Marius were retiring or trying to because they kept coming back to add features to Mnet. On August 2003, PPE joined the team to take over the day to day stuff. Which means in a few months, PPE would have 10 years as being the main caretaker of Mnet. PPE ran the mythforums.com forums before and during that time. Eventually merging it with Mnet.

While PPE might not have had as big of a hand in the server as Marius and Conner, he still helped in some part of that. Maybe he was more of a web guy in the team, I don't know. But Mnet as it is today was not this way back when PPE took over. I've seen him talk about changes and fixes to Mnet in the past, so it isn't as if he didn't touch the Mnet code in some way.

In fact, he was interested in having Mnet save films back in 2009 before 1.7.0 was out. It was too late for it to be considered for 1.7.0 so the idea was to revisit it for 1.8.0. (1.7.1 and 1.7.2 were mostly maintenance updates, in theory.) He seemed so interested in this he stated that he had 4+ terabytes of storage for just this reason. Come to think about it, he was very active in 2009 while he was talking to Magma about what he was interested in adding for Mnet.

He and another Mnet dev (not Connor or Marius) were doing some work to port Mnet to a different programming language so it would be easier to update and add features around that time. Mnet uses Delphi and PPE wanted to port it to C# .NET. Delphi is a dead language and might explain why Mnet didn't get any major features as they would be a pain to implement. However, he seemed to have lost interest as that port was never completed.

GoS on the other hand was written in a newer language. How long did it take you, punk, to get it to this state?

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 22 Jun 2013, 03:55

thanks for the history lesson, good stuff. i guess i should give ppe a shred of respect. just a shred though.

in other news, the mnet site is back down again.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 22 Jun 2013, 04:50

this is an awesome hilarious thread, thanks for all who participated and spent way too much time of their day pondering this buisness.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 22 Jun 2013, 05:12

Pyro wrote: GoS on the other hand was written in a newer language. How long did it take you, punk, to get it to this state?

Hard to judge... the majority of the basic functionality I did fairly quickly but I had the benefit of newer languages/frameworks and most importantly the Bungie metaserver source code as a reference. That said, I hacked away at it for a few months on and off to get it near its current state - more if you include the web side.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 22 Jun 2013, 06:27

It's laughable that this is still alive. It's ironic that the people who are most addicted to myth are perpetuating its demise. Salute, derelicts.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 22 Jun 2013, 06:46

You're still here LK? Hurry up and go away so we can kill Myth.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 22 Jun 2013, 15:36

You are killing myth, the empirical evidence is overwhelming and flies in the face of everything you've stated. You're simply too arrogant and stupid to admit you're wrong.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 22 Jun 2013, 17:24

Lizard King wrote:Myth has survivedy throughout the years due to the fact that there has been one server throughout it's timeline. Bungienet, then playmyth, then marius. If there had been multiple servers throughout myths timeline the community would have been fractured and myth would most likely not exist today.

Kind of like someone was too arrogant and stupid to admit they were wrong about this?

Interesting.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 22 Jun 2013, 17:51

Lizard King wrote:You are killing myth, the empirical evidence is overwhelming and flies in the face of everything you've stated. You're simply too arrogant and stupid to admit you're wrong.

Says the guy idling on Mnet while everyone else is playing on GoS...

How is Myth supposed to survive if people are unable to get Mnet accounts btw?

/stirring pot for the day

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 23 Jun 2013, 01:03

You people....GET A LIFE.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 23 Jun 2013, 01:07

BIG KROK V8 SS likes Pogue's comment.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 23 Jun 2013, 01:07

gdi why aren't .gifs working for avatars?

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 23 Jun 2013, 04:33

Actually I'm 100% right. Anyone that was around to know myth's history knows this, too bad you're not one of those people ;(

If you were serious about your server you would have already implemented every hollow promise that makes GoS that much better than marius. The fact of the matter is you still have a barely developed server that boasts many promises during it's 2 week lifetime while marius has been around for a decade. You can talk all you want, the polls are vindication enough to show that you don't yet have what it takes to convince this community that you're worthwhile.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 23 Jun 2013, 04:56

really, who else is agreeing with you on that? its a fact that marius and playmyth co-existed for 5+ years, for the entire duration of the play myth era. denying it just further proves your delusion. show me a single person that will dispute this fact with you.

Also I believe the fact that everyone is always playing on GoS now is vindication enough.

anyway, we are all having a good time over here on GoS still. have fun sitting in the lobby by yourself on marius. let us know when you are finally rage quitting along with enc.

by the way, marius website is still down.

just in case you still haven't noticed.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 23 Jun 2013, 04:57

Lizard King, you are talking out of your ass. GoS is in its infancy. Punk has been talking about implementing these features since AT LEAST last year, when I spoke with him for the MWC casts. And he has delivered so far. Automatic saving of films to the metaserver. Check. Tracked stats for all games played on the metaserver. Check.

The problem is that he was forced to go public earlier than he had anticipated (I am assuming of course) because of the fact that MNET WENT DOWN FOR 2 WEEKS. I guess he should have just kept it to himself, huh?

Get it together, man. Punk shows every indication that he can and will deliver. Lord knows he has the technical know-how. (he contributed a great deal to making 1.8 a reality) You honestly, like all your buddies, have no idea what you are talking about. See: the entire contents of this thread.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 23 Jun 2013, 05:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1eehQ-n ... e&t=14m33s

You've had a whole year to find out about this but I guess you'd rather think this whole GoS thing is just a Mickey Mouse operation, huh?

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 23 Jun 2013, 07:52

btw, nemesis just showed up today on GoS (at 4 am EST, i.e. aussie time so I am pretty sure it really is him). He said gekko emailed him, just let him know to get 1.8. He said he figured out the rest, and that getting on GoS was very easy. So there is another strike against the "it is too hard to find another server" argument. And nemesis hasn't been seen around in like a few years, a really really long absence. If we were all on mariusnet, he would not have been able to get a new account to be able to log on since the website is down. And we may have never been able to see nemesis again.

I have seen other new players on it as well. the server switch really seems to have had 0 side-effects so far.

pallidice · Post by **pallidice** » 27 Jun 2013, 11:11

Sin has been on as well now and i think hes looking to play in mwc if reggy isnt closed.

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 27 Jun 2013, 12:57

Gos is great. My only confusion was thinking that somehow mumble was linked with the server. Little things like chatroom lobby speed and the films and auto stat tabulating are actually pretty sweet. Once some of the other features like spectate and stats come it will only get better.

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 27 Jun 2013, 14:14

honestly im just glad people have stuck to the one server. If the server split had of continued on an even basis for a few more weeks I think this years MWC would of easily been a nightmare for attendances.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 27 Jun 2013, 14:28

Nem came around last year, too... he was on our MWC team. Though... he never showed up because of the timezones, but still. He was around.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 27 Jun 2013, 17:05

oh sorry my bad everyone, it was 1 year for nem, not 3 years. thanks for the correction adren, very relevant.

anyway, yea it looks like marius is dead completely, especially with mwc now being played on GoS exclusively. That happened a lot faster than I thought, I think the website staying down was what did it in for good. Everyone is finding GoS just fine anyway, the activity seems the same as marius, picking up again for mwc season as usual. Pyro has done a great job helping people transition over, among other people. He put up a webpage FAQ on it for punk, and just has his mnet account named with the FAQ URL (gameofstorms.net/faq) sitting on marius permanently 24/7 to help anyone else transition over. So the community comes together to help each other out as always and as everyone at least SHOULD have known. Even the rage quitters have quickly come back. Story has a happy ending. The end.

So let's take a look back at who revealed themselves as the king retards of this thread:

Star of the retard show: Cu
Co-star: Kilgrath
Supporting cast: Limp
Guest appearance by: Ghengis
Hilarious cameo rage-quit by: Enculator

Wow who knew they could be so wrong about the server transition? Well, it turns out a lot of people knew actually I guess, except them. If they don't talk for a while, don't worry, they are still trying to get their foot out of their mouth. I have never seen a case of a whole group of people eating their words quite so badly, hilariously, and magnificently all at once.

Thank you everyone for participating and/or watching. that's a WRAP.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 27 Jun 2013, 18:24

Honkey wrote:Once some of the other features like spectate and stats come it will only get better.

To that end Honkey if you wouldn't mind checking out my post in the metaserver forum and throwing down your sorted priority list of features that'd be helpful

And anyone else too that has a minute.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 27 Jun 2013, 19:00

Typical GKG.

Once again you completely ignore what people have said because you're either incapable of understanding or caring about another person's position which opposes yours or you are a permanent troll. Judging from my experiences with you I'm going to have to go with the former. You are a decently intelligent person so this has to be a personality disorder of some sort that has just been frankly hilarious to behold for the past 4 years.

This reminds me of when you posted your victory thread after MWC 2011 basically confirming why so many people were trolling you during the tournament to begin with, though I'm sure that irony has completely escaped you as well.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 27 Jun 2013, 19:20

hahaha

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 27 Jun 2013, 19:49

Keep going, I'm getting hard.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 27 Jun 2013, 23:50

I'm so happy this thread is back.

pallidice · Post by **pallidice** » 29 Jun 2013, 05:22

awsome pic arsenal

grim · Post by **grim** » 04 Jul 2013, 12:27

Zaknafiend · Post by **Zaknafiend** » 04 Jul 2013, 14:32

once again, congratulations for killing myth, it would have lived at least 2 or 3 more years without your serveregowar

sasper · Post by **sasper** » 04 Jul 2013, 15:21

the marius page always says there's 11 people on... it's just some historical image that never changes. there's hardly ever anyone on marius anymore

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 04 Jul 2013, 18:03

sasper wrote:the marius page always says there's 11 people on... it's just some historical image that never changes. there's hardly ever anyone on marius anymore

Yeah, pretty funny that people keep posting parts of Mnet that are completely broken since it went down

I love how the image of the people who were on Mnet from back in the day shows pretty much the same players who are active regardless of the server. He didn't even take the two seconds to cross-reference the player list and realize something was up... hilarious.

The majority of bitching seems to be coming from people who don't even play the game... if you want people to play Myth, why don't you actually get in some of the games or - crazy concept - host one yourself? If you need help with setting up your router, catch me online sometime or just post and ask.

There were 55 people online on the weekend on GoS and typically 20-30 on weeknights. There have been basically zero people online on MariusNet for a week now. I think that basically puts this argument to rest. If the arm-chair mythers would take that two seconds it takes to actually log on and play they might already know this. I'm glad you are spending your time trolling and spreading misinformation instead of playing. Definitely a positive influence, keep it up!

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 04 Jul 2013, 18:16

yea I was wondering why grim posted that, it didn't make any sense to me.

I agree punkuser, it does seem like the vast majority of trolling does come from players who no longer play the game. Or if not trolling, they do have some other kind of motivation to try and kill the community. I guess who can blame them? If they kill off the community, it has no effect on them. But I wonder what is it in them as a person that makes them so bitter so as to try and kill a game and a community that they are really no longer a part of. Why they even waste their time on something they don't play, I have no idea.

This is the only gaming community I have ever seen that legitimately just wants to kill itself. There are always the sore losers and haters in other gaming communities, but their voices are typically snuffed out as they are in the vast minority, and the majority will keep them at bay. But here now with myth, they have grown to a significant number, and very few seem to care to try and snuff them out.

For these reasons, I am pretty sure this will be my last mwc. Many others are saying the same. And if it becomes true, let it be known that it was never the server switch that killed it off. It was certain members of the community itself, often the same people who will continue to try to troll it by claiming it was the server switch. Which are often the same people who do not even play in mwc anymore, nor have in quite some time. we can all tolerate the trolling of active players who actually contribute to the activity of the game, that is their right as they have earned it by being relevant in the community. its the trolling from the players who don't even play anymore, nor have in some time. coming from them, it is truly vindictive, because they have no other motivation other than to see the community die for their own amusement.

was grim trying to troll when he posted that? Or was it a mistake? who knows. before I would have given him a benefit of a doubt, but he may have just become bitter and finally joined the trollers-who-dont-play club. the same club that wants nothing more than to see the community die. its like revenge for them because they don't want to see the community carry on without them. and when they succeed they will celebrate in victory and continue their troll by saying, "see! it was the server switch!" more bitter, hateful individuals you could not imagine.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 04 Jul 2013, 18:22

Yeah I'm probably wasting my time with people who just want to see the world burn at this point, but I keep holding out a glimmer of hope that some of them may want to actually play still. If that's the case, why don't you hop on right now guys? There's a 2-team going on as we speak.

I'll give grim the benefit of the doubt in any case. Sorry for the harsh reply, but I'd still like to see you actually come on and play some games sometime. Same for cu and the others. I can tolerate Zak's trolling since at least he actually plays occasionally

Pyro · Post by **Pyro** » 04 Jul 2013, 18:56

I think some of the people that blame the server switch or anything else just end up coming online at the wrong time. When the switch was recent there was barely anyone on and the players that were on were mostly idle. Take that screenshot Grim posted today in the morning. About 6 hours later, we have a few more people...

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 04 Jul 2013, 19:28

Yeah maybe. Anyways there's a full 16 player game and people waiting in the lobby going on right now if anyone wants to hop on and play...

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 04 Jul 2013, 20:02

It's cute how you just dismiss people with opposing views as merely being trolls rather than actually fully addressing what valid points they've brought up. I mean that is General Killer Giant's modus operandi, he cannot stand when people disagree with him, but to see punkuser do it, great stuff. I'm sure it will serve you well in future endeavors.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 04 Jul 2013, 20:20

grim posted an incorrect screenshot to suggest that the myth community is split between 2 servers, when it isn't. everyone is on GoS. posting something untrue is pretty much the definition of a troll. doesn't get anymore clear cut than that. and the trolling certainly hasn't been limited to discussion of split servers.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 04 Jul 2013, 20:44

Cutard wrote:It's cute how you just dismiss people with opposing views as merely being trolls rather than actually fully addressing what valid points they've brought up.

Cu your argument is getting old and your strategy of just claiming your points have not been "fully address" is tiresome. Experience from the past couple weeks has clearly refuted the hypothetical situations that people dreamed up, but perhaps its unfair to expect forum lurkers to know that. It's clear to me that you're not going to accept any evidence or logic as refuting your points, so it's hard to take you seriously.

Do you have any intention of ever playing Myth again? If not, why is any of what you say here relevant?

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 04 Jul 2013, 21:00

Evidence or logic, like mariusnet still being the only result you get when you search for a myth 2 server, being the main server that people associate myth with, or it being the default server in a patch? The only counterarguments I have heard are "maybe we'll get it in as the default in a patch" "no new or old players are going to get confused, there probably wont be any" and "it's totally PPE's fault for not having a blue bar, he doesn't care about myth." Those sure do sound like hypothetical arguments to me? You're pushing a server with new features over proven stability and ease of access and you've had numerous people in this thread with their own anecdotes supporting those facts.

I have barely argued the hypothetical situations such as you suddenly just moving on or GoS being unstable versus PPE hosting a stable server for 10 years. You can get tired of it and quit this thread as many times as you like.

Also, I'm not defending grim's screenshot, I knew once I saw it that it was the frozen user screen and I think I even muttered "fat retard" under my breath.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 04 Jul 2013, 21:04

yea or ignoring the only true fact that matters in the entire discussion: everyone is on GoS. gg end of discussion.

i must say cu, you are getting owned up and down the forums lately. you are like 0-6 if there was score for such things. why are you even here? you dont play.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 04 Jul 2013, 21:05

Brilliant post Giant Killer General, one of your best.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 04 Jul 2013, 21:11

simply stating "i win" doesn't make it so, gkg. Cu has many valid points... most of which punk and magma SHOULD consider addressing sooner rather than later... and I say this as a GoS supporter.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 04 Jul 2013, 21:14

Cutard wrote:Brilliant post Giant Killer General, one of your best.

See, you're missing the point. What you are saying are your "arguments" are not axioms in and of themselves, they are your supporting hypotheses for your argument that having GoS up will "split" the community. Evidence has shown that this is not the case, and thus there is not even a need to debate your theoretical situations.

As far as new players go, we've had several that Pyro has happily directed over to GoS so far and he created a FAQ to make it even easier. That's not to say we won't continue to try and make it easier and more visible; obviously that's helpful (and you'll note that the getmyth.com page has already been updated and links to the GoS FAQ). But there is little if any evidence to support that it has been an issue so far, so the cries of panic should really be tempered with reality. And hey, why not follow Pyro's example and do something useful instead?