Myrgard

I guess this is mostly a question for PunkUser but would be good to here if other people would like to have it.

Could there be an additional game scoring that is based on a units UT value? I cant think of a name for it maybe something like Target Value Points or TVP.

How it is now which I never really gave much thought to until the damage change with 1.8 you get points just for the amount of damage you do. I had thought for years that you got more points for killing higher value units which I guess you dont. So if a Player kills a thrall (5.5 HPs) they would get more damage points than if they killed a Lock (2.187 HPs). But a Lock is a much higher value target.

My question is could an addition stat be included that gave stats for the amount of UT damage points you did? So like a Lock is 8 points Thralls 1. So in a game if you killed 1 Lock (a much higher value target) you get 8 points. Killing a Thrall you get 1 point. Could it also be tied with damage as like a %? So that it wasnt like the Player that made the final hit that killed a unit gets all the points? So being that if you took off half of the damage from a unit you also get half of its UT value in the new stat Target Value Points stat.

I think this would be a valuable stat for Players to know performance of Players. So that a Player that killed 3 enemy Locks (which would be good) would get 24 TVPs. Instead of just a few damage points that they would get now. With just damage being tracked the Player that killed 3 Locks would look like he performed worse than another Player that killed 3 Thrall.

With the additional TVP stat you could compare the amount of damage done vs the TVP stat and have a pretty good idea of who killed higher value targets.

Example if you only got like 7 damage (3 Locks) but had 24 TVP's you could tell that your kills were all high value targets. VS another Player that had 22 damage (4 Thrall) but only 4 TVP's you would know that damage was on low value targets.

Would That be doable? Would enough people want it to make it worth doing?

SamTheButcher wrote: Could there be an additional game scoring that is based on a units UT value? I cant think of a name for it maybe something like Target Value Points or TVP.

Uhh... you mean like damage? Damage already works exactly the way you describe. i.e. you get 24 dmg for killing a trow, 3 for zerk, 1 for thrall, etc.

yes but is the value points only if u get the final blow or if i hit a lock 2 times and someone else hits samt lock 2 times do we both get 4 damage points.

According to my understanding, 1.8 damage values are calculated fractionally with greater accuracy. And damage taken is finally tabulated correctly (before it behaved as you described, only counting for dead units).

pallidice wrote:yes but is the value points only if u get the final blow or if i hit a lock 2 times and someone else hits samt lock 2 times do we both get 4 damage points.

It is the latter. Has always been that for damage *given* and in 1.8+ it is also done properly for damage *taken*.

I guess I was confused about the way damage was added now. Cause a unit has a "max vitality" in the "objects" tag which is like a units Hit Points or health. Then a unit has its "cost" or UT value in the "monsters" tag. So like a Thrall has a "max vitality" or HPs of 5.5. It takes 5.5 damage to kill a Thrall. Then a Thrall has a "cost" or UT of 1.

So it is the 1 point of "cost" that is counted in the "damage" stat if you kill a Thrall? Not the 5.5 damage you did to the Thrall to kill it?

So the "damage" stat isnt really counting the actual damage you did? Its counting the amount of the units "cost" or UT?

Does that work as a %? So if I did 2.75 damage to a Thrall (took off half its health) would that count as .5 points added to my total "damage" stat?

Or a Lock has a "max vitality" HPs of 2.187 and a "cost" or UT of 8. If I do 1 point of damage (about half the damage it takes to kill) to a Lock do I get basically 4 points counted in my "damage" stat?

So if I single handedly kill a Lock I get 8 points counted in my "damage" stat? Although I actually only did 2.187 damage to it?

And if I killed 8 Thrall I get 8 points counted in my "damage" stat although I actually did 44 points of damage to kill them? 5.5 X 8 = 44

If that is how it works would it be useful to track the "actual damage" also? Players could then get a good idea of the type or value of the units they killed.

Example:
Player A: Kills 3 Locks. His "damage" stat (current one that counts a units "cost" or UT as "damage") is 24. His "actual damage" is 6.561. (3 x 2.187 = 6.561)

Player B: Kills 12 Warrs. His "damage" stat (current one that counts a units "cost" or UT as "damage") is 24 also. His "actual damage" is 66. (12 x 5.5 = 66)

Players could then compare the numbers to see the type or value of the units each Player killed.

If a Player has a high "damage" stat (current one) compared to a lower "actual damage" stat you know that Player killed mostly high value units. Like Player A.

VS another Player that has both stats pretty high or his "actual damage" is higher than his "damage" stat (current one) you know that Player killed a lot of lower value units. Like Player B.

I know the "kills" stat kinda does that now but if a Player was the one to do the finishing hits on some units their "kills" would be high but "damage" low. Like if one Player bombed a group of Thrall with a Dwarf and another Player finished them off with melee.

While it's nice to see you punctuating your sentences and using paragraph structure...

your ideas are still lacking in quality.

SamTheButcher wrote: So it is the 1 point of "cost" that is counted in the "damage" stat if you kill a Thrall? Not the 5.5 damage you did to the Thrall to kill it?

Yes, effectively. Basically it works like this... each time you damage a unit it works out the fraction of that unit's HP that you damaged. So say you hit a warlock and do 1/4 damage to it. It multiplies that by the unit's cost (8) to get a total damage of 2. That value is added to the attacker's damage stat, and now it is also added to the defenders damage received stat.

Rest of your post seems correct/consistent with that, yes.

SamTheButcher wrote:If that is how it works would it be useful to track the "actual damage" also?

In terms of HP? No I don't think that's very interesting at all. The point is that UT cost is where units are "balanced" in terms of efficacy, and each team gets the same total UT cost. Counting raw HP damage would just promote killing high HP, but low value units like thrall, and penalize sacrificing units to take out high value, low HP units (like warlocks and fetch). Unit trades also affect the total raw HP available to a given team.

Thus I don't think it's a very useful statistic at all... even less-so than kills with is already pretty questionable.

adrenaline wrote:While it's nice to see you punctuating your sentences and using paragraph structure...

your ideas are still lacking in quality.

Yea I am getting better with the structure of my post. LOL

I didnt think it was an awesome idea. I just thought it might be cool to have the extra stat for 2 tm games. To give people a better idea of who did what.

Thanks Punk for clearing up how the damage scoring works.

Geek down kids, Jesus...

Yea, I am not really a fan of the new "DMG" stats. I would like the new way just fine, IF the damage or HIT POINTS dmg were also included.
As I told punkuser before. If I have 1 ghol, and I kill 8 thrall with it (almost impossible) I would only get 8 points of UT dmg counted. But if I used that same ghol, and pussed 1 lock and killed it (pretty easy if they are not looking) then I get the same 8 points of UT dmg. There should be a HIT POINTS or health fraction DMG calculation. Because its NOT DAMAGE that is being counted here, it is UT point values. They both are important, an BOTH should be calculated.

Renwood wrote:Yea, I am not really a fan of the new "DMG" stats.

It is not "new". It's the same way it has always been done, just more accurate now.