Myth HD TOTAL CONVERSION HAS BEEN RELEASED!

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 15 Jan 2014, 03:35

Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.

-Aristotle

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 22 Jan 2014, 03:13

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 22 Jan 2014, 03:14

With soild shot cannon ball rounds, Spherical cased shot, Grape shot munition options.

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 22 Jan 2014, 03:15

In the animation I made, you can watch the dorf pull the mortar shell out of his backpack and load it in the barrel.
His fate is not tied to the Balloon. If it starts taking too much damage, or his boots are needed on the ground for support. He can bail out and parachute down to the battlefield!

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 22 Jan 2014, 03:16

INCOMING! BTW There are solid shot rounds, 4,5,6 second timed 360 degree shrapnel bursting rounds, and Air Bursting Downward in a cone shaped shrapnel blasting rounds that detonate with proximity to a target or the ground. Based on the WWII radio proximity artillery shells the USA used.

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 22 Jan 2014, 03:16

This is a Hydrogen filled Balloon, so you know we have a spectacular explosion death animation to go with it.

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 24 Jan 2014, 05:13

Renwood wrote:In the animation I made, you can watch the dorf pull the mortar shell out of his backpack and load it in the barrel....

Do you understand what the word "animation" even means? You didn't post an animation, you posted several jpeg still images, which could be from an animation or it could just be static images - but even the individual pictures are FROM an animation what you posted isn't an animation . I can't 'watch the dorf pull the mortar shell out of his backpack and load it in the barrel' - no matter how long I watch a JPEG it never moves - the dorf just stays there frozen. Am I supposed to print the pictures out and make a little flip-book out of them and squint so I can imagine the missing frames so I can 'watch' this 'animation' you made?

Also, is this rendered image from a graphics program or is from in Myth? eg. Is it like the hi-res cutscenes and promos you see of videogames and then you play the videogame and it's nowhere near the same resolution? If that's a still render from Maya or even a screenshot of an animation frame that doesn't impress me in Myth terms - Maya is a graphics program so I expect it to do professional quality rendering, show me the in-game Myth animation if you want to impress me.

switch · Post by **switch** » 24 Jan 2014, 05:34

I thought renwood used C4D?

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 24 Jan 2014, 06:36

vinylrake wrote:Do you understand what the word "animation" even means?

I assumed Ren was telling us *about* an animation he has, but I wasn't confused that he didn't actually post it. Though it would be fun, and a good way to "sell" people, to post animated GIFs that approximate how it would look in Myth.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 24 Jan 2014, 06:37

VR wtf is wrong with you? Its a single image from an animation from a collection. Troll attempt FAILED!

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 24 Jan 2014, 06:40

Renwood wrote:VR wtf is wrong with you? Its a single image from an animation from a collection. Troll attempt FAILED!

That did seem pretty cranky of VR. Someone steal your Cheerios this morning?

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 24 Jan 2014, 06:43

I think VR/OM just tries to waste as much of my time as possible. But this latest brainless post of his, has prompted me to add him to my foes list. Now I won't see anything he posts. I would suggest others do the same.

switch · Post by **switch** » 24 Jan 2014, 08:00

Does this mean you don't use C4D?

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 24 Jan 2014, 15:58

Renwood wrote:VR wtf is wrong with you? Its a single image from an animation from a collection. Troll attempt FAILED!

It's not a troll attempt you asshat, it's calling you out on your usual "Look what I made for Myth!" ego bombs where you brag about how great something is but don't really show anything from Myth itself.

You made a highly detailed 3D render of a dwarf in a balloon using a 3D gfx program? Yeah, that's cool but how's that relate to Myth? I can see the Myth like units and renders (better quality even) on any number of art sites.

If you really made something that can be used in Myth then SHOW it IN MYTH. I get that you aren't done so it's not ready to play, but if you are just at the 3D rendering stage you should be posting this in a "Myth related fan art" topic, not one named "Myth HD Total Conversion has been released".

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 24 Jan 2014, 16:05

vinylrake wrote:It's not a troll attempt you asshat

He won't see this reply. He posted that he added you to his GoS "foes" list.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 24 Jan 2014, 23:07

Switch.
That is done in Alias Studio Tools and Alias Design 2013.
I am moving over to Maya now as it looks very similar and is the successor of Alias Studio Tools.
Alias Studio Tools was designed for the car design and sytling section at GM. It is still used in the GM Styling department where they work on concept cars.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 25 Jan 2014, 01:16

jason_ac wrote:
vinylrake wrote:It's not a troll attempt you asshat
He won't see this reply. He posted that he added you to his GoS "foes" list.

Yeah he does that every time someone presents him with logic and reason and won't kiss his ass just because he knows how to use a 3D graphics program just well enough to lure people into thinking he's going to make something really cool for Myth.

For some unknown reason (ego masking a deep seated insecurity is my guess) he seems to feel his creations are the best things that Myth has ever seen - despite the fact that hardly anyone agrees with him and it's rare to even find anyone using his 'amazing' plugins.

Maybe I am just bitter, he promised this amazing total conversion a few years back with new solo levels, new multiplayer maps, new scenery, new models - basically a huge plugin that would revolutionize everyone's experience playing Myth. After months and months of deadlines going by all he (and his 'team') released was the inappropriately named 'FareWell Tagset" (inappropriate because Renwood won't go away). The unit tagset wasn't a bad plugin but getting just a tagset after all the grandiose claims was like being promised a brand new Ferrari and being given a Razor Scooter. As if that wasn't insult enough, he's still fine-tuning that scooter - years later - and he's still trying to tell us how amazing it will be and why we should send him money.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 25 Jan 2014, 01:34

vinylrake wrote:it's rare to even find anyone using his 'amazing' plugins.

I like the HD well enough, and I've heard from a few that were looking for it. I agree it doesn't make a huge difference when at max zoom, but still, I like it. I'd run it more if I knew more people had the plugin, but I can't even always get people to download Bungie maps, never mind an HD tagset

I am trying though...my autohost name is now "Info @tinyurl.com/JAMHost"

The things you'd notice most at max zoom would be to high-res the trees!

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 25 Jan 2014, 21:54

From 2 nights ago. Mal hosted for about 3 mins and this many people joined like 11PM at night PST
So yea, people have it. Even Palli's new video card allowed him to play it now

!

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .png[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .png[/img][/url]

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 25 Jan 2014, 22:22

That's another of your problems Ren, no self control. You say you have added me to your foes list so you won't see my posts, then you go ahead and respond anyways. Let your yes be yes and your no be no - all this prevarication makes you seem wishy-washy, or even dishonest. You should be careful, things like this might make people question the truth of what you say.

But I am pleased you found some people who are enjoying playing your plugin - I am sure it feels good to get some positive feedback for something you've spent years working on.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 25 Jan 2014, 23:59

Playing with this some more I realized that I don't want to use it until I take the time out to learn how to edit formations again. It screws me up too much to move back and forth between regular Myth and the HD plugin, when the HD plugin forces formation changes on me.

And I can't recommend it at all for newbies, because they'll be confused that the formation behavior doesn't match up to the on-screen interface menu, nor the Myth documentation.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 26 Jan 2014, 02:31

Ok, some actual feedback on one of the units...I haven't compared them all yet (don't know when I will), but it jumped right out at me that I didn't like the HD Soulless, and I finally spent some time examining them and can say why. Original Recipe Soulless have nice bone-white skulls. Very "attractive" and menacing. Plus they have relatively bright purple clothing. HD Soulless are very grayed-out overall. No more nice skull-like bone. And when you combine gray skulls with duller, darker clothing...they're harder to see on the battlefield. I do not like that at all. And just less attractive and menacing looking.

I think it's great you did the HD! But they need some important tweaks IMO (Soulless, & the formations). I'll have to go through all the units...when I have time

LOL, is there a map that has EVERY unit on it? Or at least ALL Light & another ALL Dark?

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 27 Jan 2014, 07:51

Hey jason

The custom formations slipped into HD from the "Our Farewell Tagset" We did not intended to leave the formations like that. In the new version, we will put back the default Bungie forms. It is easy to edit your formations on your end though. Start up fear and go into the formations folder, then you can edit them to get what you want. On the new HD total conversion release, we will make the BOX formation the only one that is custom. Due to the bungie box formation being nearly worthless.

The souless just get that look that you dislike due to their increased amount of colors in the new HD renders. Myth currently only supports 256 colors for an ENTIRE unit's collection. So when you set up a unit like the souless in Oak or amber, it loses a TON of color information. A lot of times the end results are a complete surprise. There is 32 bit color support for units and effects in the works though and should be included in a far future version at some point I imagine. So yea, the souless are not how we wanted them to turn out. So go ahead and hate on em, we do to! ~8^)

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 16:29

Renwood wrote:On the new HD total conversion release, we will make the BOX formation the only one that is custom.

Unless you want to confuse new people, you should not change anything. If THEY don't like their formations, they can ask others to give them a download of formations, or learn how to edit it themselves. To have your formations magically differ from the documentation will confuse people.

>The souless just get that look that you dislike due to their increased amount of colors in the new HD renders.

Why not fix it? You have other HD units with bright white. And Myth manages Soulless with bright white. I think you need to change your Soulless so they have bright white. If you make units that hard to see on the battlefield, I would not use the plugin.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 29 Jan 2014, 14:25

It is not that simple Jason. We even completely rerendered and remade the souless with different lighting settings a 2nd time to try and get them to look more like the 32 bit renders (Brighter). Zoom in all the way on the bungie souless, they look like blurry garbage. The HD ones look far better, they are just a bit dark. Its just a limit 8 bit collection from a 32 bit base. Not that any of this makes much sense to people that never make new units with transparency. But talk is cheap, here is an example of what the souless really looks like when I render it in 32 bit. Any changes to what the souless looks like in game from this image is purely due to the 8 bit limit of 256 colors. Let me put it this way, 8 bit = 256 colors, 32 bit = tens of millions of colors.

Here is an example of what the souless renders REALLY look like.
Maybe the Gamma settings in your myth's prefs needs to be increased, or maybe your monitor's brightness needs to be increased so the souless are not as dark in game and blend into the map colors on darker colormaps.

[URL=http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/ ... .png[/img][/url]

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 29 Jan 2014, 17:11

Renwood wrote:It is not that simple Jason.

Well, it is a computer, therefore the problem is solvable

Change the texturing? Reduce the color palette range of the rest of the figure so that a pure white & a few grays aren't lost in the mapping from the 32-bit down to the 8-bit? Plus I'll bet there are programs with color converters/re-mappers that can prioritize which colors should not be lost in the downgrade from 16.7M to 256. White NEEDS to not be lost. Whatever the solution is, find it.

>Zoom in all the way on the bungie souless, they look like blurry garbage.

Yes, but I don't play zoomed-in. HD units which are so dark as be semi-invisible aren't workable.

>Maybe the Gamma settings in your myth's prefs needs to be increased

There are no gamma settings in my Myth prefs. And everything else in Myth (including the other HD units), and everywhere else on my computer, looks/works fine.

>maybe your monitor's brightness needs to be increased so the souless are not as dark in game and blend into the map colors on darker colormaps.

Doesn't fix it. On a darker map (Drowned Empire), with my monitor at full brightness (brighter than I like to play, the whites are so intense), at max zoom out, the HD Soulless have extremely poor visibility when they're in shadow/dark areas.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 29 Jan 2014, 18:37

"Change the texturing? Reduce the color palette range of the rest of the figure so that a pure white & a few grays aren't lost in the mapping from the 32-bit down to the 8-bit? "

What? And compromise an artist's 32-bit vision? Now you talking crazy talk. Renwood has said time and time again that he doesn't care what people's computers are capable of or how his units actually look in-game, he's happy to wait 10 years until Myth players' computers and Myth catch up to his 3D graphics program's rendering capabilities. As long as he can make pretty pictures he's happy.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 30 Jan 2014, 02:11

Jason there is 32 bit color support already in Myth 1.8 Project magma just did not implement it in the public release. Go on their forums and ask them to release a version that supports it maybe? 32 bit collections mean no loss of colors in game and everything can look much better.
If there was 32 bit collections implemented, we have all the renders ready to go. There just needs to be a full function 32 bit collection builder that is automated. Which is also ready if Magma decides to release it. There would still be manual tweaking of things like setting key frames for where arrows appear when an archer shoots and things like that. But it is very do-able and would be worth the effort.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 30 Jan 2014, 03:04

Renwood wrote:Jason there is 32 bit color support already in Myth 1.8 Project magma just did not implement it in the public release.

Hmmm, well, *IF* the Soulless is the only problem unit (I don't know, haven't examined them all yet)...a new client feature requires testing & debugging (presumably why it didn't go public), while fixing a palette or color-mapping (something a lot of videogame artists have had to do since forever, and still have to do on weaker platforms, like handhelds & smartphones) to fix the color on 1 unit seems a lot simpler & a lot less work.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 30 Jan 2014, 03:52

this thread kills the forums every time it bumps, for elfoids sake

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 30 Jan 2014, 05:55

The best there has ever been at making myth collections has tried to fix it twice jason. I think you do not have a grasp of the limitations people deal with when creating things for myth. The answer is the 32 bit collection format. A lot of people have told me one of their favorite HD units is the soulles... So to each his own. OOga and I are not really pleased with them though.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 30 Jan 2014, 05:56

Par, you can not kill that which is ALREADY DEAD

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 30 Jan 2014, 06:35

Renwood wrote:The best there has ever been at making myth collections has tried to fix it twice jason.

It's an art rendering/conversion problem. In the end, it's just a bunch of bitmaps. I've done plenty of bitmap art, bitmap conversion, and a bit of 3D modelling/rendering. If you can't get your renders to look right in a limited color palette...then it's a problem in your process, your palette choice, your conversion process, or some interaction of all of that. You could make a high-res unit using only 2 colors, or 16, or anything (not that it would look good

). If you can't make your bitmaps have an appropriate look in 256 colors, that's an art problem (that videogame artists have dealt with for a long time). Yes, it would be great if the engine supported 16.7M colors. That's what videogame artists said for a very long time. Then they went ahead and made their art look as good as it could get within the limitations of what the engine could support. That's the same thing you could do. Or just wait and hope someday Myth supports 16.7M colors. Could be an infinitely long wait though.

Codex · Post by **Codex** » 30 Jan 2014, 11:11

This plugin is great!! I'm impressed by the dramatic change this plugin has on the look and feel of the game. The individual designs arn't quite there yet and need some more love (more interesting textures, better chain-mail, dirt, soft shadows, softer hair) so everything need some more work but the soulless arn't far off. BUT as a collective (zoomed out fully) it looks really nice and stimulates the eye. My opinion is that the rendering technique for the units needs experimenting with to get a more realistic result. After the module has been rendered and converted into the game engine's colour palette; the bitmap of the individual frames for the viewing angles should be tweaked in Photoshop to have more fidelity such as dirt and possibly even stains in the clothing. Some parts of the individual frames could also be touched up the same way.

Be aware not to exaggerate this because multiple units of the same type are clones, if they have to much detail they will all look the same (this happens less with the original units). A good example is a shot from one of the battles in LOTR. The orcs in the foreground are highly detailed but in the background the orcs have far less detailed. This is intended because the rows of orcs in the background have been copied and pasted (clones) to make the army look bigger than it actually is. This is why the original units look less similar than the new ones.

All designers have to work with restrictions; your greatest restriction is the Myth 2 engine. Unless the engine can be upgraded you have to work with what you have got. Great work overall the hours were worth it! (some people might not just appreciate it yet) I would love to help with this project in my spare time. Might send in some work I have done for design.

-Codex

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 30 Jan 2014, 17:15

If you are talking about the LotR movies, the background orcs aren't any less different than the orcs in the front - they might be rendered with less detail, but they are just as varied and different from one another as the orcs in the front.

That's because there was (AFAIK) no visual 'cloning' of figures. In the LotR movies the figures in battle scenes that aren't humans with prosthetics & makeup were all generated by a computer program which randomly generated all the elements of an orc (and animated it). So a number of different orcs could have the same dirt stain on their armor but they would have a different combination of armor, clothing, weapons, face, hair, helmet, and they would have a different build or different walk or one might be right-handed the next could be left handed - tons of variables randomly generated for each orc so you don't notice the repetition when you have 1000 in a scene.

Codex · Post by **Codex** » 30 Jan 2014, 18:54

Thanks, I was never sure if it was done that way. I'm still convinced that the orcs which are CGI have been intentionally rendered at slightly lower quality to smooth out the rough edges. I was thinking it would be great if the Myth 2 engine could do something similar thing to randomly generating (and animating) the units which would solve the problem. Left 4 Dead 2 made by Valve does this to randomly generate its zombies.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 30 Jan 2014, 21:59

Glad you are enjoying the Myth HD Total Conversion Codex!
Those are some good ideas you mention. unfortunately most of what you suggest and describe is only possible in games with characters that are full 3D. Myth is 2D for everything expect things like house models and the terrain mesh itself. To even change 1 pixel on a warrior from another warrior requires an entire new collection (that is frames for every animation the unit does, like walk, attack, death, idle, taunt, things like that)
What you are describing is also done IN VIDEO GAMES, with the Orcs in the front looking better then the ones in the back on LOTR is called LOD, (Level Of Detail) It is a rendering technique for video games where the guys or objects closer to the camera have more detailed 3D models and textures then the things further away. This saves video RAM space and just overall uses less system resources and speeds up performance. Myth 1.8 has the 2D equivalent of this, it is called MIP MAPPING. Where closer things are shown with higher res 2D images then the ones further away.

Jason, you might very well have a good idea of working with 2D images and how that works. The problem is you have never worked making myth collections, so there are some things that are completely outside your experience and skill set. It is not just a matter of 32 bit to 8 bit color conversion. There is also the major hurdle of working with the primary and secondary colors that are used to support the team colors you see in game. The limitations due to these primary and secondary colors and all the team colors you need to take into account are nearly limitless. As you have seen, people can choose a nearly unlimited range for their team colors in game.
So it is more complicated then you are thinking it is.

If you want to try your hand at it, I would be happy to send you the souless renders, and ooga might have a tutorial laying around of how to build myth collections you could follow. There are other programs that can convert 32 or 24 bit to 8 bit that you might use that could work well. We use photoshop CS4. You might have something more advanced that you use for work, but I think you would get the same results in the end.

Thanks for the feedback guys! The new version of the Myth HD Total Conversion should be ready soon-ish. And maybe even the new Our Farewell Tagset as well!

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 30 Jan 2014, 22:09

Renwood wrote:It is not just a matter of 32 bit to 8 bit color conversion. There is also the major hurdle of working with the primary and secondary colors that are used to support the team colors you see in game.

How about you describe why your warriors have white, but your Soulless don't? How about describe why Bungie's low-res Soulless have white, but yours don't?

It is the same problem no matter how many extra curves you throw in it. You have a problem somewhere in the process from texturing, to rendering, to down-converting. It's up to the artist to find and fix the problem. Or wait forever and hope the engine catches up.

If you modelled a unit using only black, white, gray, and purple, and had its render use only black, white, 1 shade of gray, 1 shade of purple, and dithers of those 4 colors, that dithered render would survive intact a conversion to 8 bit, with PLENTY of room left for colors for other units, and team colors. It might look crappy, but the problem would be solved. Now solve it in a less crappy way. Bungie did. I think their Soulless are more attractive, more menacing, and more usable, than the HD ones.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 30 Jan 2014, 22:37

Jason Feel free to donate with paypal to help our dev team be able to spend time clicking away on things like this. DigitalPeaches@yahoo.com
To say bungie souless look "better" IMHO is rather silly. They are super blurry and look like garbage. Do they have white skulls? Sure they do, but they have far less colors in them as well. As you said, waiting until the myth engine catches up with a public release of 32 bit collection support is the more logical course of action. It is already implemented in Myth 1.8, just only in Dev builds. So for us to spend a lot more of our time, to try and fix a problem a 3RD time we already gave great attention to, and that will be completely fixed whenever and or IF the 32 bit collection support is included in a future version of myth is a major cost/performance time sink for us.

Maybe you have seen the all new units we are currently working on, like the Ship's cannons and the new Dwarven mortar balloon.
That is what we are excited about working on now, and the Balloon looks great in game!

You can always try your hand at it like I said, we would give you the resources to do so and if you are somehow able to create better results. We then would be happy to include them in our next release and give you credit as well.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » 31 Jan 2014, 06:38

Renwood wrote:Jason Feel free to donate with paypal to help our dev team be able to spend time clicking away on things like this. DigitalPeaches@yahoo.com

ahahahaha.... First Renwood says the best myth renderer ever has worked on the problem and it's IMPOSSIBLE to fix and that the ONLY way to fix it is in the Myth engine. (and in the process tries to pretend he knows more than jason and that if jason really knew what he was talking about he would understand and agree with Renwood) Then when Renwood belatedly realizes that jason not only understands the underlying problem but understands the BS that Ren spouts he asks for money so he can do that thing he just said (multiple times) was impossible.

Re: Upgrading hardware: If the basic process / workflow is flawed the only thing upgrading hardware and making the process faster will do is help you do bad things faster.

"Funding a new Myth Game by a team who have never programmed a line of code who don't have the legal rights to develop a Myth game? $450,000. The feeling you get when you realize you are paying for hardware upgrades so 2 guys can keep doing the same thing they are doing now while claiming hardware will help them solve problems they think are impossible to solve? Priceless".

Codex · Post by **Codex** » 31 Jan 2014, 07:23

If it is taking too long to render the modules send them to me and I can render them. I have a pretty fast rig (i7 3770K, GTX 660ti, 16GB RAM)

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 31 Jan 2014, 08:18

Thanks for the offer Codex. The rendering is all done at this point though. So it is the tweaking and fine tuning and setting them up in myth that is what we are working on now. And that is just the Cannon and Balloon I am talking about. Do you have any experience with 3D modeling or animation?

Codex · Post by **Codex** » 03 Feb 2014, 18:34

I have a little bit of experience with 3D modelling but would like to get better

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 10 Feb 2014, 18:07

Renwood wrote:To say bungie souless look "better" IMHO is rather silly. They are super blurry and look like garbage. Do they have white skulls? Sure they do, but they have far less colors in them as well. As you said, waiting until the myth engine catches up with a public release of 32 bit collection support is the more logical course of action. It is already implemented in Myth 1.8, just only in Dev builds. So for us to spend a lot more of our time, to try and fix a problem a 3RD time we already gave great attention to, and that will be completely fixed whenever and or IF the 32 bit collection support is included in a future version of myth is a major cost/performance time sink for us.

I'd say, just set all the unit coloration & textures back to the original Bungie colors. They didn't have problems with that color mapping, it should solve your color mapping troubles as well. I'm not sure why you changed any of the colors at all. The Bungie Sols do look better...because you can SEE them on the battlefield, and they also have a nice color range to them...not all dark like your colors. I don't think waiting for the 32-bit is a good idea, unless Magma has all-but-promised it'll be in 1.9, and all-but-promised that 1.9 will be released in the next 12 months. But even you appear to be not confident that 32-bit will ever be released.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 11 Feb 2014, 00:52

Jason there are 3 options here.

#1 we can wait for 32 bit for public release, since it is already fully implemented, it could just come out as a small update to 1.8 (you should also go to the magma forums and make a thread asking for this to happen)

#2 Ooga and I send you all the stuff needed for you to try your hand at setting up the souless and importing it into myth, with some tutorials.

#3 You donate $ to help us focus time on JUST working on the souless through paypal at digitalpeaches@yahoo.com

What happens from here is up to you.

Melekor · Post by **Melekor** » 11 Feb 2014, 03:09

Ren's soulless is dark because that's how the lighting is set up in the soulless model file that he got from us. I know this because I've worked with it myself. It can be fixed in the modeling program. It has *NOTHING* to do with bit-depth and he knows it. The bit-depth explanation doesn't even make sense at the most basic level, because bungie's soulless (and every other unit) is 8 bit and looks just fine.

Just another example of Ren lying (badly), blaming his laziness and/or incompetence on magma, and yes, asking for more money!

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 11 Feb 2014, 05:09

Melekor wrote:It has *NOTHING* to do with bit-depth and he knows it. The bit-depth explanation doesn't even make sense at the most basic level, because bungie's soulless (and every other unit) is 8 bit and looks just fine.

I thought perhaps he was using a larger # of unique colors than Bungie did, and so some of his colors were all getting mapped down to the same color in the down-conversion, losing some colors in the process (though you would think it would dither and so differing colors might look lousy, but at least they'd all be sort-of represented). And he simply wasn't willing to change his non-working color choices. But if it's just a matter of lighting, jeez, fix it already, that's not hard.

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 11 Feb 2014, 05:31

I fxed souless lighting in the animation program, melekor. No way other way to do it. Maybe you should look a few posts up on this thread, where I POSTED a PIC of the current souless I made. Instead of jumping at a chance to insult me. That is why we remade the souless a 2nd time in 2013. And what is your reason for not including the 32 bit collections in myth 1.8 already? Is it laziness on your part? Or the classic "Only magma gets to use nifty things that we keep away from the public"?

Renwood · Post by **Renwood** » 11 Feb 2014, 05:40

Does not look like its lighting is too dark, now does it melekor.
Not really sure how you think I blamed magma for 8 color color conversion. Pretty sure it has been done like this since 1997 with Bungie at the helm.
Including 32 bit collection support would be pretty nice though if you add it in a a little 1.8 update and take that same chance to make GOS the default multiplayer server.

Melekor · Post by **Melekor** » 11 Feb 2014, 06:50

Ren, you just claimed a few posts back that the darkness on the soul was caused entirely by 8-bit color conversion. (Read: not by lighting) Do I need to link your own post for you? That's what I'm calling you out on.

Right after that, you said you can't or won't fix it until 32 bit support is out, conveniently placing the blame for your delay in fixing this onto magma.

I don't care if you fix it or not, but stop lying and stop making up excuses.