BLATANT RIGGING

limp · Post by **limp** » 05 Sep 2015, 23:56

It's the day before the finals and 3/7 maps don't even have an associated mesh to play with them, making it impossible for me to strategize on almost half the maps.

This is egregious rigging and I demand closure to this immediately

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 06 Sep 2015, 00:00

whatever man you know all the maps. Desert ruins is obviously the Trow mesh since that was the only mesh when I posted the picks. Valencia Oranges no portals of course, that doesn't change the mesh or map layout at all. Shattered Visage the trow mesh THAT YOU CHOSE.

I hope this is a troll post, otherwise drugs are a hell of a thing.

tirri · Post by **tirri** » 06 Sep 2015, 04:05

asmo took a page from limp's playbook

par73 · Post by **par73** » 06 Sep 2015, 11:20

speaking of asmo, limp, and map picks

Asmodian wrote:yeah you should post all the maps before the tournament even starts, it protects the the integrity of the tournament so we know the TO isn't choosing certain picks from one week to another that favors a certain teams players strengths.

Ratking · Post by **Ratking** » 08 Sep 2015, 01:47

There were issues in mwc with the maps as well. I remember a discrepancy with what the website had compared to the forums. Not sure why we even do websites for tournies anymore?

However, I do give props to asmo for organizing these things. Time consuming and a thankless job.

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 08 Sep 2015, 03:35

Ratking wrote:However, I do give props to asmo for organizing these things. Time consuming and a thankless job.

Aren't you about to host something?

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 03:43

par73 wrote:speaking of asmo, limp, and map picks

Asmodian wrote:yeah you should post all the maps before the tournament even starts, it protects the the integrity of the tournament so we know the TO isn't choosing certain picks from one week to another that favors a certain teams players strengths.

Still agree with that statement mostly. After hosting a lot of tournaments I find it more interesting as a TO to get new tournament maps added rather than having everything set in stone from the start. If I'm going to host these things I'm going to at least get some personal enjoyment out of them as a TO.

Ratking wrote:There were issues in mwc with the maps as well. I remember a discrepancy with what the website had compared to the forums. Not sure why we even do websites for tournies anymore?

I think the only issues the whole tournament was with green acres. It was suppose to be Green Acres (trow). In one of the versions of Green Acres, green acres(dark) is the mesh with trow on it. I updated that like 2 days before the match was played at least, it wasn't a last second change.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 08 Sep 2015, 03:55

If you don't get personal enjoyment out of something leisure related, why bother ?

Still, it's not surprising to hear you get personal enjoyment over having such a meaningless advantage over the other players/captains by withholding the maps, Or perhaps it is enjoyment over players complaining about your lackadaisical efforts to maintain a 32-person event. In this case? Likely both

Picking newly released unplayed crap maps, whether it's purpose is tournament caliber or not, is just another way to devalue integrity as having knowledge of the picks before their release.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 04:12

I get enjoyment out of playing the games, not doing the TOing.

You completely misinterpreted what I said, no surprise.

They aren't newly released prior to the tournament. I work with people to hopefully get them done in time. Arcane Haven, Leagues from somewhere , Muritheme, Desert Ruin and Aztec Oranges are far from crappy maps. I understand it would be hard for you to know this since you never make the finals to be able to actually play them so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

par73 wrote:Or perhaps it is enjoyment over players complaining about your lackadaisical efforts to maintain a 32-person event. In this case? Likely both.

You're literally the only person around stupid enough to believe this.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Sep 2015, 04:48

Let's hear more from the worst TO ever as he attempts to criticize (troll) the only willing TO left in myth.

Good stuff.

tirri · Post by **tirri** » 08 Sep 2015, 06:02

being paris is a thankless job.

THANK YOU PARPAR

par73 · Post by **par73** » 08 Sep 2015, 11:06

Why so defensive, cherry pickers?

It's fairly clear my "trolling" "attempt" was a success judging by the salty double ad hominem response I recieved "from the defendant". Quite honestly, if Asmo didn't question the integrity himself why would he bother defending himself? I thought the tournament was for fun and integrity wasn't of importance, your choice to defend it's integrity makes it sound otherwise. Regardless...

Asmo claim's that picking the maps is his favorite job as a TO, so I wonder why he made a lackadaisical effort to pick and post them for the other participants throughout the tournament. Maybe it has to do with his disclosure to "do everything in [his] control to win", maybe it has to do with his approach to things he enjoys. If one of the maps isn't finished in time it's easy to replace it with another well known pick, so that excuse why all likely 17 picks were not released at the beginning has no relevance. Perhaps now you see it was you who misunderstood me, young grasshopper; for whether a map pick is crappy or not is entirely perspective.

Speaking of perspective, all I had to do was sit in the lobby to hear participants complain (in vulgarity) about the unpolished picks to observe the fact these 'tournament' finals was more likely a cover for 'map testing' finals. Don't get me wrong baby smo, it's still perspective.

Gkg running to asmo's defense as per tradition on how asmo's the only willing TO left (to put up with his shit). I suppose gkg would be surprised to hear there is another tournament being run at this very moment with a willing TO, who'd have thought? The gkg delusion is real: this defensive behavior over asmo is comparable to when he argued with limp over the legitimacy of this finals victory, because limp's team agreed to allow east wind as a sub and asmo never chose to take the opportunity (somehow this is limp's fault, mind boggling). Wake up control freak, that entire situation rests on Asmo's decision. Who would have thought an observer to be so invested, I imagine gkg would have been the first to complain the maps were not posted had he participated. Predictability is a priceless tool; all I had to do was reiterate limp's main point of BLATANT RIGGERY.

Good work limp, sup champ
Thanks Drizzt

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Sep 2015, 13:27

Good stuff.

Dantski · Post by **Dantski** » 08 Sep 2015, 13:43

New maps weren't a problem gameplay wise (although should definitely avoid updating maps 90 mins before a match!).

Visage 2 team should never be picked, its a much worse version of Dark Canyon. The light mesh might be worth playing but probably not over much better maps like Caer or just plain old Desert.

Triskelion does favour the south team as it gives them a bit more room. However our team would've lost if we started south if we played like we did.

Feeb favours the north team and after Asmo gave up middle (didn't watch middle so don't know if he had to or not) their team was seriously disadvantaged as we could camp it out.

Not sure why whirlwind CTF was brought up, the game played out fine even if the map is kinda bland.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 15:06

par73 wrote:Asmo claim's that picking the maps is his favorite job as a TO

Never said that. I said adding new maps was my favorite part. There is no reason to even talk with you. You just misinterpret or spin everything, you would make a great politician.

Also the sub thing about East Wind is complete BS. I'm not mad about it, they didn't have to let East Wind sub and they didn't. East Wind just laughed about it when he heard that people were claiming that they allowed him to sub after the fact.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 15:17

Dantski wrote:New maps weren't a problem gameplay wise (although should definitely avoid updating maps 90 mins before a match!).

I agree that was confusing and that wasn't me who made an update to the maps. HMP posted new map links on the maps thread, which were not needed and it became confusing.

Thank you for helping me update some maps though HMP!

Dantski wrote:Visage 2 team should never be picked, its a much worse version of Dark Canyon. The light mesh might be worth playing but probably not over much better maps like Caer or just plain old Desert.

I think it could play better with a different mesh in a non-draft tournament, but for a tournament like this I agree. A more simple map choice would have played out better.

Dantski wrote:Triskelion does favour the south team as it gives them a bit more room. However our team would've lost if we started south if we played like we did.

Ehhh I don't know about this. Looking at the map initially I actually think North start has a slight advantage. Your team gave up West uncontested when your team is suppose to have that ground and me flanking puss from that side is what made you guys lose ground.

Dantski wrote:Feeb favours the north team and after Asmo gave up middle (didn't watch middle so don't know if he had to or not) their team was seriously disadvantaged as we could camp it out.

Feeb was a bad pick. North gets both corner flags first (NW & SE). I didn't realize this until after testing the map slightly and I thought it would be unfair to change the maps a few days before the tournament for the 3rd time. Although the starts are vastly unbalanced I think it would have played out better in even a 6v7 situation where I could have had another player mid with me to actually have a realistic chance of winning a mid fight.

In hindsight I would have chose a more open map especially for it being game 7.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 08 Sep 2015, 17:58

Asmodian wrote:
par73 wrote:Asmo claim's that picking the maps is his favorite job as a TO
Never said that. I said adding new maps was my favorite part. There is no reason to even talk with you. You just misinterpret or spin everything, you would make a great politician.

Also the sub thing about East Wind is complete BS. I'm not mad about it, they didn't have to let East Wind sub and they didn't. East Wind just laughed about it when he heard that people were claiming that they allowed him to sub after the fact.

their entire team stated that you could let east wind sub and somehow a player and mind of your brilliance skipped a beat and missed the memo

i think limp is making a good case for #2 best strategist on myth ever but he's taking the cake at #1 with this one

dac · Post by **dac** » 08 Sep 2015, 18:09

I feel pretty secure saying that paris is not in the debate for #2 captain though, I mean our team certainly did put up its fair share of 0-fers in this tourney.

But between the TO blunders of dummying in your own tournament or making a DE terries game worth more than the rest of the match combined I'm not sure what pegleg you have to stand on here? Unless this is you lashing out at all the people who (correctly) pointed out your TO blunders, then it makes sense but it's petty and you lose anyways.

Thanks for hosting the tournament smo. I wish your big board didnt suck and that the tourney could have been a little more entertaining.

I will agree with paris on one thing he said, it would be nice if the matches could be played in the same day since attendance is a massive issue in tournaments like these.

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 08 Sep 2015, 18:34

The map picks were pretty good up til the last few games of the finals tbh. If one side gets a start location advantage in any map/gametype it should never be picked ever. The first 4 games felt a lot more about trade/execution/strategy being the deciding factors

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Sep 2015, 19:34

par73 wrote:their entire team stated that you could let east wind sub and somehow a player and mind of your brilliance skipped a beat and missed the memo

And you would know this how? You were not even present at any of the games. Too funny.

Would anyone else that was there even claim that anyone on limp's team ever uttered the words "you can let ew sub"? If so, let's get names so we can know who else is lying with paris. If anyone on their team had said that, this wouldn't have even been an issue, ew would have played, and we would not even be talking about this.

Instead most of what limp said is actually recorded in the beginning of the game 6 film, where he says:

"do whatever it's your tournament"
"just hold it against you win or lose"
"regardless, i'm holding it against you"

Another line said by limp in the pre-game which was not recorded but which I will share with you here, was along the lines of: "but ew would have been the #1 ranked player in the tournament". This is coming from the guy who has the other 2 of the top 3 players on his team and who knew from the start of the tournament (along with everyone else) that he had the significantly better team roster among the 4 teams.

Myrk also dodges the issue by suggesting that they could use BOC as a sub (notice the re-direction away from the suggestion of ew subbing). But either way, at no point did anyone on limp's team suggest that asmo could use ew as a sub.

People are free to interpret for themselves whether or not this sounds more like a hesitant guilt-trip, implied threat, or something else. As asmo stated, no one is mad about it. But no one is being fooled about it either. We all know what was going on here so let's just call it what it is: competitive greed seeking any advantage for the win.

They were 5 games into a close 7 game match, and people were willing to take any advantage they can no matter the cost to the quality of the games. It was the revelation that competitive greed is still strong in myth, and it confirmed the continued existence of that certain level of care for the win that most would not admit to these days. Limp of course was motivated by the pressure of possible embarrassment if he lost the match (which he nearly did) - a match that he was heavily favored to win.

So we are just pointing out that it was interesting and funny to see that revelation, as well as limp's follow-up attempts to cover it up after the match win was secure.

Yes it was asmo's decision, but limp's guilt-trip / expressed opposition to the idea of ew subbing certainly swayed that decision. Those are basically implied threats to asmo of riggery. Of course asmo would be thinking about how the rigging claims would be 10x worse right now if he had used a sub and ended up winning the tournament (which was very possible). He lost and we still have talk of rigging from the usual troll. Imagine what it would be like otherwise, we would all be reading articles of the massive conspiracies and riggery right now.

Of course asmo-the-rigger played 5v7 in 3 out of 7 games of the finals (okay don't count TSG as a player for limp, asmo is still missing 2 out of his 3 best players in rawr and gekko) and he also played against a better team roster that he created which included both Arz and dantski together. And also of course the largest start advantage of the match (possibly the only significant one in the whole tourney) went to Limp's team in the last game which decided the whole tournament. But hey, when there is nothing else to cling to, just fall back to the map pick rigging. Good stuff indeed!

dac · Post by **dac** » 08 Sep 2015, 20:36

Giant Killer General wrote:Yes it was asmo's decision, but limp's guilt-trip / expressed opposition to the idea of ew subbing certainly swayed that decision. Those are basically implied threats to asmo of riggery. Of course asmo would be thinking about how the rigging claims would be 10x worse right now if he had used a sub and ended up winning the tournament (which was very possible). He lost and we still have talk of rigging from the usual troll. Imagine what it would be like otherwise, we would all be reading articles of the massive conspiracies and riggery right now.

If that was true I wish EW would have subbed. This forum could certainly use more content.

switch · Post by **switch** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:14

Less typing more shoutcasting, gkg. Let's assume asmo had fielded ew, which I imagine you have more information about the possibility of occurring than we did, since you were there the entire time. Would it have swayed game 7? Based on what people are saying about the map start advantage (mind you, we restarted this map in some last second psychological warfare), the claim that edubs would have changed the outcome hinges on him giving asmo the extra firepower to sneak flags- although I doubt this would have happened. I expect asmodian would still have had the same dilemma, which was the mid rush against our defence, namely myself, tsg, hmp, with myrk as a distant reserve. I'm not seeing it, even with edubs mad skills.

Of course, asmo might have played a different strat in this case, but I'll leave that tasty what if to him to explore.

Limp, as team captain, made the executive decision to put asmodian in a position, correctly I think, where he had to decide to play east wind, trying to pass off the responsibility to limp is bogus, and you know it gkg. I'll say it again, we were all cool if edubs played, personally I was surprised when I saw he wasn't, but with respect for our captain and the match so far, we didn't go to the length of begging ew to join asmo. I think that was the right move. Ultimately, despite gkgs ridiculous buck passing, it was up to asmo and east wind, and I'm not hearing anything from either about thier thinking on this.

Like I said earlier, gkg, call us out on it. Go nuts. Do your shoutcasting, I think it's important for the future of myth to see what your thinking (since you saw every game) is on the match as a whole!

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:20

Aww, EW shoulda played. Limp (and certainly some others) certainly wouldn't have given a genuine shit. Asmo's team was grossly overmatched, and no one should dispute this. This is assuming ew's awareness was back up to speed, as that would have been his most important contribution on that team. Was it 4-3 because limp got 4 wins early and then the later games were irrelevant? If it actually required 7, good job 'smo.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:29

switch wrote:I'll say it again, we were all cool if edubs played, but with respect for our captain and the match so far, we didn't go to the length of begging ew to join asmo. I think that was the right move. Ultimately, despite gkgs ridiculous buck passing, it was up to asmo and east wind, and I'm not hearing anything from either about thier thinking on this.!

Again I am not mad you guys didn't allow him to sub. There is no rule saying you had to allow him to sub. What is irritating me is the people being bold face liars saying you were all fine he subbed. You weren't fine with him subbing as a team. Every message that was sent that my team could see had a negative connotation. If I allow him to sub I am being labeled as the biggest cheating, care bear that will do anything to win on a game that is dead.

Eastwind didn't believe you guys were allowing him to sub, the neutral observers in the game didn't nor did anyone on my team believe that you were allowing him to sub.

switch · Post by **switch** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:31

You'll have to take my word for it, Asmodian, since I didn't screencap the team discussion on this. All I can speak for is myself, and I'll be clear: I expected you to play East Wind.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:32

wwo wrote:Aww, EW shoulda played. Limp (and certainly some others) certainly wouldn't have given a genuine shit. Asmo's team was grossly overmatched, and no one should dispute this. This is assuming ew's awareness was back up to speed, as that would have been his most important contribution on that team. Was it 4-3 because limp got 4 wins early and then the later games were irrelevant? If it actually required 7, good job 'smo.

Just fyi he didn't 4-0 early and the match was over so they let their guard down.

It was 3-0 and then my team won 3 in a row. Game 7 was the deciding game.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:36

Wwo, do you really think the quotes I just listed from limp are of a man who doesn't care?

Yes the series went to 7 games though, it did not end early. I was predicting a 5-2 loss for asmo, and that was with gekko. A 4-3 loss without gekko at the end is a moral victory for asmo for sure.

Switch give me a single statement from anyone that suggested you were "all cool" with ew playing. Are you suggesting that the quotes I listed from limp could have meant that? Hilarious.

I guess you were all so cool with it and expected it so much that you just forgot to ask why ew wasn't playing yet after you lost badly 5v7 in game 6.

switch · Post by **switch** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:44

Man you're pretty choked about this.

Game six was really well played by team Asmodian, despite some minor mistakes here and there. I think it'll be one of the most interesting for you to shoutcast. From my perspective, I actually thought we had a better start, but there was lots of debate about that, and I could have been wrong. What I saw happening was that we were losing too much artillery in the mid and had to adjust, but when we pulled back we walked into a bit of a bottleneck and think that's what most are referring to regarding the terrain and what have you. I was off on the flank killing Chrons warlock with a pus ghol, then trying to make a mortar/warrior flank develop some pressure, but someone blew up my mortar, so it was clear to me that the flank wasn't happening. I wanted to adjust to the other side, but Asmodian had too much coverage there, so it was clear we had to rush and see what we could do, and, much like what happened to Asmodian on game 7, they shut us down before we got close.

I think it was the weakest game we played, for whatever reason.

GKG wrote:calling out liars. You have nothing to back up your statement

I just told you what my position was. The team was there reading the chat. I'm not lying to you, and why would I?

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:47

Nah, just having fun calling out liars. You have nothing to back up your statement so I will take that as your admission. Who's next?

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:48

Just so nobody accuses me of 'dodging' anything my standpoint on ew subbing was 'fuck that'. 'smo didnt wanna take BOC although he's more or less equally useless as TSG, why should he get a player who's gonna be more useful than the guy he's replacing while we're still stuck with a guy who's a waste of units. Wasn't my call tho so my position on it is pretty irrelevant.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Sep 2015, 21:57

Fair enough Myrk, at least you aren't trying to lie about the situation like some others.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 22:05

Myrk wrote:Just so nobody accuses me of 'dodging' anything my standpoint on ew subbing was 'fuck that'. 'smo didnt wanna take BOC although he's more or less equally useless as TSG, why should he get a player who's gonna be more useful than the guy he's replacing while we're still stuck with a guy who's a waste of units. Wasn't my call tho so my position on it is pretty irrelevant.

I absolutely respect your response because you are being honest about it.

Just FYI I didn't ask for ew to sub the game when we were missing Slate in a 5v7, game two. I felt like it was fair to get EW to replace Gekko though, especially considering Gekko did what he could to play, but technical issues got the better of him.

switch · Post by **switch** » 08 Sep 2015, 22:08

Let the record show I personally approved of waiting for Gekko to get his shit in order (and I'm pretty sure said "wait for Gekko" or something to that effect in the chat) to continue the match, however, Asmodian was in favour of rushing to start. Mind you, I don't have all the information on this either, if Gekko was not going to play further or not. Since there's a lot of mud slinging going on here and I've been accused to lying to GKG, I think it's reasonable to point this out.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 22:18

The more you say the more clear it is you are/were completely ignorant of the situation, which is a little bit shocking. Gekko crashed in the middle of the game, he came back and crashed again. Even after that he tried one more time and crashed for a 3rd time. Why am I going to hold up a match that had already been taking forever for a guy that is clearly having issues?

He even sent me a message via FB shortly after all the crashing saying he is out because of all the technical issues.

Please just stop while you're ahead. You are making a fool of yourself.

switch · Post by **switch** » 08 Sep 2015, 22:21

Thanks for clarifying, Asmodian, I appreciate it. I figured there was something more going on there. I most certainly was ignorant of the situation!

I'm not sure what point you think I'm trying to make. My position- speaking as an individual- was that you were going to field edubs, and I did not oppose that notion. So far you and GKG seem more interested in trying to pin some anti-East Wind conspiracy on Team Limp, which is pointless, because there was none. Each player made their respective statements, and the balance of the matter was that East Wind would probably play, no matter what we said (that was my impression on the matter). You chose not to play him, and I would not have held it against you had you done so. You and GKG present a highly convincing (really, text-book) case for what is known as blame avoidance here, although, predictably, you're either completely ignorant of this, or, more shocking, aware of it and doing it anyway.

At any rate, as I've pointed out, this debate seems backwards to me. The real question should be, would East Wind have made the difference for you? I'd like to hear what you would have done differently, or how an unambiguous statement from Team Limp would have adjusted your strategy.

But you're not going to do that because its easier to adhom someone and attack their integrity than to formulate a reasonable what-if. I'm not sure why that's the case here, but it's disappointing. I don't know what's more upsetting, GKG's disgusting personal attacks on the credibility of the players, or your penchant for hearing only what you'd like to hear.

I'm really looking forward to GKG's shoutcast, since he'll no doubt clear up these concerns, and put to rest any questions about myth truth and reconciliation. I'm particularly looking forward to the detailed Game 7 counter-factual analysis!

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 08 Sep 2015, 23:34

fuck east wind

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Sep 2015, 23:42

switch wrote:So far you and GKG seem more interested in trying to pin some anti-East Wind conspiracy on Team Limp, which is pointless, because there was none.

Honestly where do you get this from? Such an absurd statement. We are calling your team bitches in general for wanting an uneven match, that is all. I think that's as simple as I can put it.

switch · Post by **switch** » 08 Sep 2015, 23:45

Asmodian wrote:We are calling your team bitches in general for wanting an uneven match, that is all. I think that's as simple as I can put it.

...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRRAMCyh-nM[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xiw6BBJB2w[/youtube]

par73 · Post by **par73** » 09 Sep 2015, 05:43

Giant Killer General wrote: And you would know this how? You were not even present at any of the games. Too funny.

too funny. i was present while the games were taking place and in the aftermath saw enough of your lobby smear campaign resulting in their entire team stating 'hey thats not true we said we were fine with it'. facts.

if we want to talk about "competitive greed" we can start at the beginning when asmo big boarded the entire draft, but y'see asmo wants to play house of cards with limp and not have some meaningless "you-let-ew-play" crap held against him... and therefore you chose to hold it against limp

so really asmo had full control of the situation, failed, and instead of saying 'wow u chimped that up' you get instinctively defensive like mama bear for cub and talk a bunch of shit to the players who just won.

the most hilarious part is you and east wind have nothing to do with this tournament, no doubt in hindsight whom should have done the big board. yet through some obvious god complex you find 'divine right' for you and your followers to have a presence , 2fune

dac wrote: But between the TO blunders of dummying in your own tournament or making a DE terries game worth more than the rest of the match combined I'm not sure what pegleg you have to stand on here? Unless this is you lashing out at all the people who (correctly) pointed out your TO blunders, then it makes sense but it's petty and you lose anyways.

if this is directed at me, i have never dummied in any of my own tournaments, never had to, and provided others with better experiences than i had while being a host which is a win in my book.

calling out liars here but not dummying in my own tournament is something i have prided myself on and never had to do unlike the spotlight crybaby in the land of BLATANT RIGGING

in terms of petty winning and losing, it looks like i've won. ez

par73 · Post by **par73** » 09 Sep 2015, 05:54

speaking of east wind playing for team asmo, i think the best course of action was asmo gets gkg and limp gets ew.

too bad everyone present gave a shit about who plays in a fairly lenient ruled and casual tournament system and couldn't figure that one out

switch · Post by **switch** » 09 Sep 2015, 07:50

I like that idea, Paris. I'm surprised we didn't have more substitution requests, from players such as Tirri or yourself who were in the lobby before the games started.

BOC also dropped so he was unfortunately not happening as a sub

Dantski · Post by **Dantski** » 09 Sep 2015, 11:23

We were fine with subs and wouldn't have opposed reasonable suggestions, however the only sub they ever wanted was EW who is better than anyone else on their roster and we were not happy with that. By game 6-7 our team was pretty tired of this shit and were willing to let him sub.

dac · Post by **dac** » 09 Sep 2015, 17:20

Who were asmo's 5 and limp's 7? I highly doubt that switch and tsg really turned the tide of the entire match, but I haven't watched, nor will I watch the films.

Thanks for the tourney smo.

Dantski · Post by **Dantski** » 09 Sep 2015, 19:01

dac wrote:Who were asmo's 5 and limp's 7? I highly doubt that switch and tsg really turned the tide of the entire match, but I haven't watched, nor will I watch the films.

Thanks for the tourney smo.

Asmo
Chron
Akira
Argos
Slate
Gekko
Nitro

Those 7 were present at various times during the match. Gekko had PC problems and kept crashing while loading into game 6 (not sure about which game it was). Slate missed one I think since he was taking forever to download maps and nitro was only able to stay for 1-2 games.

Limp
Myrk
Arz
Dantski
HMP
switch
TSG

We had all 7 for each game, except game 5 (the visage one) where Myrk and someone on their team dropped or crashed during the game, which made that one a 5v6 if I recall.

GKG wrote:Okay so you are saying that your team wasn't happy about it before game 6, but then you changed your minds after game 6?

No I'm saying we weren't happy with it period, we were willing to just say fuck it and play at the end of the match though.

GKG wrote:Also obviously the only sub they wanted was EW because he was the only other person watching other than myself. BOC joins the pre-game lobby briefly later on, but obviously this is not even a worthwhile player. Let's stop trying to suggest that BOC was a more suitable replacement for Gekko (and rawr) than ew was, or that BOC would have been useful in any way, or that Asmo had a bunch of other options for a sub and he was being greedy by picking EW.

I'm not a part of what Asmo's team was discussing during the games so I can only speak from our teams perspective. It seemed like Asmo's team only tried to get EW to sub which we weren't OK with and no one else was considered (I'm sure there were better players than BOC willing to sub in the lobby but hey I didn't check). When one of our players making it an unfair 7v5 is TSG though I don't think BOC would really be worse than that although I have no idea how good those 2 are really.

GKG wrote:I am just blown away that people are trying to pretend that ew is head and shoulders above dantski and arzenic though

I like Gekko but I don't rate him as highly as many others seem to and thus I don't think EW is a fair sub for him. This is just a personal opinion though, I think if Asmo genuinely believes that EW and Gekko are as good as one another then he should've had him sub.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 09 Sep 2015, 19:06

Of course switch and TSG made a difference, 5v7 is always a difference in a tournament setting where you don't get to choose your own teammates. Switch had the 3rd highest dmg ratio on his team, which is a big deal. If you are getting good dmg ratios from your 2nd worst player that is great regardless of the decisions he makes as far as the game type.

TSG is he good? absolutely not, but he out dmg Gekko in the finals (also =ed his bc throughout the whole tournament). He clearly helped your team, but for some reason I have seen a lot of you using him as a scapegoat.

Ew was the only person there to sub other than BOC... Everyone else was afk in the lobby or at least not typing there at all as I was out there on a secondary account from when I tried to help Slate dl the maps.

Also it's funny that People from Limp's team are acting like EW is vastly better than Gekko. Limp himself said Gekko should have been the #1 pick prior to the tournament. I understand you all don't hold the same opinion as limp, but he sure seemed like the one who was mostly against it as he was the one that pretty much said no to my team several times.

Dantski wrote:I like Gekko but I don't rate him as highly as many others seem to and thus I don't think EW is a fair sub for him. This is just a personal opinion though, I think if Asmo genuinely believes that EW and Gekko are as good as one another then he should've had him sub.

Also this isn't really the issue. Everyone is going to rate players differently. The fact is that Gekko was my #1 drafted player. So I would have been swapping out a #1 for a would be #1 in a 5v7, that seems pretty fair to me. If we want to get technical about rankings You and Arzenic should have been #1-2 overall (limp talked me into rating you lower because supposedly he's a better player than you, SMH).

sharkdrivingabus · Post by **sharkdrivingabus** » 09 Sep 2015, 19:37

So maybe it's my cold medicine, or maybe it's just because I'm bed ridden and have actually been reading the forums instead of just scanning a few threads and posting random responses...but I don't understand why GKG is so worked up over a tournament he didn't participate in?

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 09 Sep 2015, 19:44

Anyways for me this has been blown out of proportion, congrats on the win. The only reason I even got involved in this is because Limp straight up lied about saying you guys were fine with EW subbing and it appeared switch did too, but it ended up being just ignorance on his part to almost an unbelievable proportion.

MYTH CARE IS ALIVE AND DOING WELL, MAY MYTH GO FORWARD WITH THIS LEVEL OF CARE

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 09 Sep 2015, 19:56

Wow you deleted that post really quick. Mormon idiot....

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 09 Sep 2015, 20:04

Pogue wrote:Wow you deleted that post really quick. Mormon idiot....

Post like that could get someone in trouble at work, pretty stupid.

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 09 Sep 2015, 20:07

Asmodian wrote:
Pogue wrote:Wow you deleted that post really quick. Mormon idiot....
Post like that could get someone in trouble at work, pretty stupid.

LOL I would love to get someone fired for looking at these forums. Challenge accepted.