Heal bug

Gate of Storms (GoS) is a metaserver (lobby) for Myth II Soulblighter multiplayer where you can play online with friends and strangers alike for free.
East Wind tmnt
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Heal bug

Post by East Wind tmnt »

Hey PunkUser - I have noticed a heal bug where if a unit cannot access the target right away due to other melle being in way, it will heal a closer target. This is the most apparent when trying to heal trap. Adren has noticed this too, and I'm sure others as well. I have attached a film, occurs around 5:03.
punkUser
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Re: Heal bug

Post by punkUser »

Maybe post over at pm.net. Clearly a client thing not metaserver.

Thanks for the report/film in any case.
adrenaline
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Re: Heal bug

Post by adrenaline »

OH that's the bug you were referring to. I thought you were talking about the heron pathfinding, where it feels the need to walk all the way around the trow before healing. This is an altogether different monster!
Pyro
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Re: Heal bug

Post by Pyro »

Healing does not work like that. I bet this was just a case of a misclick as the Maul you healed was right next to the Trow. If you had targeted the Trow and the heron started the healing attack and then somehow the Trow managed to get to the other side of the map in a split second, it would still heal the Trow no matter how many units are closer to your heron guard and how far out of range the Trow got due to the attack already in progress.
wwo
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Re: Heal bug

Post by wwo »

The people making these complaints are actually far better and more precise at clicking than any coop/mazz player could ever conceive of, so it's understandable you think it's human error. I can assure you, it is not. I know it's the usual defense from programmers to blame user error, but from someone who sees both sides when it's funny/important enough, it'd be far better to admit to a code error than to try to deflect this elsewhere.
punkUser
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Re: Heal bug

Post by punkUser »

wwo if it was me who made the reply or something your statement would have some merit but Pyro knows this stuff better than anyone (and FWIW he's not a programmer). Even if he's not correct 100% of the time he's damn near close (and a hell of a lot closer than anyone else). If he's skeptical then there's reason to be skeptical end of story.

And please don't give me that "we're too elite to make a mistake" BS. Need I bring up the multitude of threads in the past where people swear on their mother's graves that something is different than 1.3 and are dead wrong?

That's not to say don't still go ahead and post it at PM.net so we can take a look at it anyways. Films are good and if you have consistent repro instructions that's even better.

Bitchy reply; it was a long day and your snide tone kind of deserved it ;)
wwo
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Re: Heal bug

Post by wwo »

I hope you see the irony (hypocrisy) of your argument. Well, misinterpretation is easy: my expert is wrong, but yours isn't? That was my point. EW has been playing chemically impaired more often lately, so there's that.

I have been particularly ornery this week. I think it's because it dropped back into the 50's. I'm an argumentative bastard. No need to soften your return blows :)
Pyro
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Re: Heal bug

Post by Pyro »

Punk was not being a hypocrite. He never said I am always right or that I must be right about this. I didn't even say I was right in my previous post just that I bet (meaning I believe, strongly) this was a misclick. The only one that remotely said anything about someone being right and the other being wrong was you, wwo. Punk just reacted to your post as he saw it as an insult. You dismiss what I say without knowing the facts when all I was doing was helping explain what was the most likely thing that took place in that film. You probably haven't even downloaded the film.

Melee based attacks like healing just don't miss ever. Even when I purposely load the film in a build of Myth that will cause it to go OOS to change it enough, the heron is seen going after the maul even though the Trow is separated from both due to the differences the OOS caused. Even OOS films will play out the clicks of a player, and this one shows EW (or his captain) clicked on that Maul.
wwo
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Re: Heal bug

Post by wwo »

Ah, I think you're taking it too seriously. There's no shits given here, thus me kinda making fun of ew, too.

Speaking of OOS, would an abnormally slow cpu among a crowd of otherwise up-to-date ones be the more likely culprit of OOS?

Btw, love your UI.
punkUser
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Re: Heal bug

Post by punkUser »

wwo wrote: Speaking of OOS, would an abnormally slow cpu among a crowd of otherwise up-to-date ones be the more likely culprit of OOS?
Shouldn't no. If a CPU can't keep up with the proper game speed eventually the network buffer will just overflow and you'll get disconnected.

OOSes happen when a client takes a different path through the game code than the server/film/etc. Since Myth relies on deterministic networking/replay/save games, this means that the simulation has diverged to some extent and while it can continue to execute actions as requested (as Pyro explained), what happens gets increasingly different than the original simulation.

So yeah, OOS in multiplayer almost always indicates a bug somewhere in the code. Definitely save films from these (from all involved players) and submit. In Pyro's case he's intentionally using a different client to go OOS, something which generally isn't allowed by the released builds.
East Wind tmnt
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Re: Heal bug

Post by East Wind tmnt »

I'm going to test this out, but honestly its happened on 10 different occasions. But its very unlikely I am clicking on a maul... I've been doing heal traps since '05 and I've never been misclicking them on other units, in fact its super hard to misclick because trow are so big.
punkUser
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Re: Heal bug

Post by punkUser »

Honestly there's a higher likelihood that clicking has changed in some way than that it would be somehow switching which unit you selected internally after the click. I don't know of any changes here (other than the vertical sprites stuff but that only affects clicking units that are right beside buildings and some terrain, not other units), but keep a close eye on the selection boxes in any case. If you manage to get a case where it clearly shows the trow being selected but then it heals someone else, definitely post that over at PM.net (in addition to whatever other cases you have).
East Wind tmnt
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Re: Heal bug

Post by East Wind tmnt »

Ok PunkUser, another thing I notice when this is occurring: I have a bunch of melle selected and I t click, the other units would be non healing units of course. But again, I have been doing this for years, it's much easier than single clicking the heron to heal. Also, never noticed a problem before. I'm not sure if this would make a difference, but I will do some tests tonight.
Pyro
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Re: Heal bug

Post by Pyro »

East Wind tmnt wrote:Ok PunkUser, another thing I notice when this is occurring: I have a bunch of melle selected and I t click, the other units would be non healing units of course. But again, I have been doing this for years, it's much easier than single clicking the heron to heal. Also, never noticed a problem before. I'm not sure if this would make a difference, but I will do some tests tonight.
This changes things. When you have a bunch of melee selected and you tell them to attack a group of enemies, they will randomly select their targets. So when you T-clicked, that heron randomly selected the Maul because it was part of the enemy group you told your melee to attack. If the Trow was separated from other enemies, your selected melee would have targeted only the Trow. This explains why in your film (after I made it go OOS) your heron and second heron end up healing other units but the Trow. At one point it healed a warrior, a maul, and an enemy heron twice. Your explanation of T-clicking as a group now makes better sense of what happened. I was here thinking you were really drunk and missed the Trow too many times in that one game.

I made a test map for these and the same behavior takes place in 1.7.2. So at the very least nothing in 1.8.0 changed. T-clicking a group will still randomly select a target for your heron in both versions.
Pyro
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Re: Heal bug

Post by Pyro »

Here I made a test map if you want to see for yourself. Load it as a solo/coop map. Select the melee you want and use them on the target dummies that are grouped up nearby. I made the herons have unlimited healing so you can try more than once without restarting the map.
adrenaline
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Re: Heal bug

Post by adrenaline »

Well that clears things up. That has always happened, EW... I've missed many heal traps because of this too, as I also usually have my entire mellee group selected at T-click the trow. Sometimes you just have to go oldschool with it and only select a single heron for the heal, then quickly select/move the remaining mellee into the trap position. Not a bug, but it is a pain in the ass :D
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