Myrgard

Giant Killer General wrote: #6 Armageddon in 2008 - solid, but just not as great as the teams above it. Oh I didn't know this, but they also lost their finals match, and just won in SD I guess? Yea any MWC win by losing the main match and winning the SD is not nearly as legit. The whole 2-win SD concept is very flawed.
#7 Thundercox in 2007 - i don't know if they really deserved to win. they lost the initial 7 game series, then won in SD. winning by SD is always a bit sketchy, winning 2 games in a row doesn't prove much.

As Myth's Best Warrior Historian General™ said in the above quote, the SD rule has saved the ass of more than one team who got their ass kicked in the finals of MWC. In TWS1, NP swept NC in the finals, then lost in SD! Who was really the better team?

I think everyone on the remaining teams agrees that they don't want an asterisk on their MWC victory.

Legitimize MWC, vote yes!

As a member of the NC team that was 4 maps away from back to back to back to back MWC wins I must say that you can't just get rid of SD in a double elimination tournament. You ignore the fact that the top team went undefeated, they have to be beaten twice. Most tournaments that are double elim have a smaller amount of games played in the finals, usually best of 5 x2. Another method is to do it like MLG Halo where you count all the games that the two teams have played against each other during the entire tournament and add it to something like best of 11. So for instance team A beat team B in a semi finals 3-2, then they met in the grand finals that means that team A needs to win 3 more maps vs team B that needs to win 4.

Also I'd like it to be known that NC never lost an SD I played in and I blame ska.

The way they do it in a double elim Starcraft 2 MLG tournament is your past record counts towards the next match. So if you lose 2-0 in the top bracket and make it to the bottom bracket finals, you start off 0-2 in the series. Seems better.

IF there were no sudden death rule in MWC finals then 12" Club would have won mwc2001 since we won the final 5-2 but lost in sd.
I guess we were quite awesome. Only team to give np a defeat in the whole tourney.

the win 2 games in a row sudden death feature is absolutely atrocious. I have no doubt that it cheated some mwc teams out of a win, giving the win to a lesser team instead. It would not surprise me if this was a feature implemented by grim for mwc, one of his many very flawed ideas.

However to remove it entirely and just say the top bracket winners have no advantage at all from being undefeated is a step in the wrong direction.

At bare minimum if there was an SD it should be win by 2, instead of just win 2 in a row.

A step better than that would be to have the previous game records carry over, as myrk already mentioned.

the most ideal situation of course is to have a second full match the week after which would be the deciding match.

Yes, we "Lost" the MWC '08 finals 6-3.

Before sudden death, we "Lost" 4-3.

That rule has since been changed.

Flatline wrote:IF there were no sudden death rule in MWC finals then 12" Club would have won mwc2001 since we won the final 5-2 but lost in sd.
I guess we were quite awesome. Only team to give np a defeat in the whole tourney.

Time to let it go, flat :/

The sudden death thing has been around since MWC99, blame Butcher.
The reason it's never been tinkered with is because the MWC99 finals was just epic and sudden death lasted a whole bunch of games.

Sudden death puts the pressure on the top team to win it. if they can't close the deal in the given amount of games, its a clear slate. what you could do is first to win 3 games. that might make for a very very long finish though. could do best of a 5 game set, so first to 3 wins.

I don't think series of games with indefinite lengths (tiebreakers, SD, win by two, etc) have a place in a tournament like MWC. Just do something like what Myrk suggested and give a game advantage to the top bracket team coming into the series.

There is already an advantage, the top bracket team only has to win one match, whereas the bottom bracket has to win two.

I like having to win by at least two games in SD.

limp wrote:There is already an advantage, the top bracket team only has to win one match, whereas the bottom bracket has to win two.

If you choose to do the two entire series in the case where the bottom bracket people win the first one in the finals, sure. But giving a small win advantage going into the series is just the slightly more time-constrained version of that, which seems reasonable given that it's already a 7-game series.

And even if you want to avoid playing games after a match has been decided, just make it a best of 9 or something and stop after there's a winner. "Win by two" is arbitrary and fairly useless. The entire point in having a series is to just put a cap on the total length.

mwc99 finals went to like 15 games