GoS + Marius

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:37

punkUser wrote:Frankly though I severely doubt anyone but me is willing to do any actual work here beyond just bitching in forums.

lol dayuuuum, punk just PUNKEd all of us out, lol love punk with attitude.

dac · Post by **dac** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:38

cu you argue like a broken record, it's so hard to read.

until punk gets the website going with the meta fields populated etc etc then it's not going to show up as the place to go.

yes the community is being fractured. a blue bar on mariusnet would be great, as would a bluebar on GoS.

solved!

ppe wont do anything with mnet because dawgtalkers is the priority (rightfully so)

he doesnt want anybody on that server for the same reason (dawgtalkers)

i dont think he gives two fucks about myth, nothing he's done shows it.

dac · Post by **dac** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:40

punkUser wrote:Frankly though I severely doubt anyone but me is willing to do any actual work here beyond just bitching in forums.

hey i offered, you seemed quite against it!

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:41

yea cu really has gone downhill it seems.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:45

too much reading in one thread

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:46

Goddamn wasn't this thread only 4 pages 5 minutes ago? You guys are adorable.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:48

NewMutator wrote:Actually the points about how GoS is "hurting" the community haven't been substantiated. You seem to care a lot for someone who has said in this very thread that Myth is a dying game.

It's inevitably dying without a major release/publicity, this isn't doing it any favors. The latest study on dying games splitting their community between two servers and the resulting consequences has yet to be finished, look for it in the fall by Ska, Slothman et al.

Giant Killer General wrote:no one is holding a gun to anyone's head here. everyone can play wherever they want to play. what part of the freedom of choice do you not understand?

if we were doing everything we could to keep people off of marius then we would start trolling threads to have marius taken down (oh wait...). instead, we are all just saying keep both servers and let people choose for themselves.

i really don't care to play with the co-opers playing on marius, they keep to themselves anyway. Whether or not the community wants to be split in that regard, it will decide for itself as whole. there is nothing lost there though for me.

you are trying to make decisions for the community which are not yours to make. the rest of us are saying let the community decides. It just so happens that your side is the minority. who is sounding more arrogant right now?

You are just dropping red herrings, strawmen and cowardly lions like a crazy man. You are actively marketing against Marius.net, the three of you have done it numerous times in this thread alone. You yourself even said Mariusnet should probably be taken down, sweet freedom of choice.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 05:56

well I take it back then, this was before I thought of that people may want to play m1, m3, or marathon on rare occasion. Marius will always be good for those things because I don't think GoS will ever want to support that. it really doesn't bother me none if it stays up forever really. this is unlike how GoS seems to bother you so much.

so there, look for some other words to warp as you desperately cling to your dying argument.

Or are you now agreeing that freedom of choice is best? there I just gave you an exit out of this retarded hole you have dug for yourself. just take it, we will all look the other way.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:01

punkUser wrote:As GKG said, the evidence that you can look up in this very forum archives will indicate to you that your timing is off. Not sure much else can be said there, but your sequence of events doesn't make sense.

Regarding "doing everything I can to keep people here" - ha. You underestimate my abilities if you think I've even applied any effort to that end

Anyways, this conversation has clearly run its course. If you think it's harmful to have two serves up, go and whine to PPE, because I'm not going to shut down a server that has features that people want to use for upcoming tournaments... I don't think PPE would want that either so stop fabricating issues where none exist. If people play on GoS it's because they want to - no one is forcing them to. If you want to make a real difference, get Mnet to run an instance of this server code instead of the MariusNet code. Win/win for everyone.

Frankly though I severely doubt anyone but me is willing to do any actual work here beyond just bitching in forums.

It's irrelevant whether I completely know the story of how GoS came to exist and when, how would I? You are in fact arguing in favor of your server over m.net for the active community, you've blatantly stated it. You are refusing to acknowledge the obvious issues with having a small community split between two servers because you don't want all of your hard work to be for nothing. I think you made a reasonable point that M.net wouldn't be shut down if everyone moved to GoS, though thats not for certain obviously. The only way this works is if everyone is on one server and that server is obviously the one to go to for someone who decides to start playing after being inactive.

Giant Killer General wrote:it should be taken down eventually when GoS is more developed, my personal opinion, not something I would ever decide for the community. In any case it should stay up for now though, and it doesn't bother me none if it stays up forever really. this is unlike how GoS seems to bother you so much.

so there, look for some other words to warp as you desperately cling to your dying argument.

Or are you now agreeing that freedom of choice is best? there I just gave you an exit out of this retarded hole you have dug for yourself. just take it, we will all look the other way.

What dying argument? Not one of you has said a split community and one server being much easier to find is a good thing which is the whole argument. You're the one who is framing this as some adorable freedom of choice, capitalism, pepsi or coke thing.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:02

dac wrote:hey i offered, you seemed quite against it!

Oh no I'll definitely be taking you up on that, don't worry dac

And that comment wasn't directed at you... you actually play the game.

Totally happy to have a blue bar on GoS... what do you want it to say? And oh, I don't need to restart the server to change the blue bar either

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:05

The point is if you're going to claim GoS is killing the multiplayer Myth community you're obligated to provide support for that claim. So far you've expressed that it's a strongly held opinion of yours and that the burden of proof is on anyone that disagrees with you, which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. How is GoS killing off the community any more than would be otherwise from a natural life cycle? How would ditching GoS be better for the community than ditching Mariusnet in the long run? At least with GoS there is the promise of support and continual improvements, not to mention responsiveness to the community; it's a long shot but there is hope for revitalization. With Mariusnet you're simply sitting on a dying game.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:05

oh clearly the entire active community should give up its server preference (which right now is the majority for GoS), and the potential for any new features so as to accomodate the slight possibility of a new / inactive player trying to log in. I am sure the difference between the community being combined on marius or split up will really make a difference in whether a new player decides to stick with the game long-term or not as well, if / when that ever even happens. We should also give all of that up instead of just having mariusnet point to GoS, that would be too hard.

makes sense.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:08

Cutard wrote: You are refusing to acknowledge the obvious issues with having a small community split between two servers because you don't want all of your hard work to be for nothing.

Meh, all the work I do is ultimately for my own enjoyment Cu. Suffice it to say I'm not spending my time trying to make you happy

In reality the point in this thread is already moot... even if a few of you who never play love MariusNet for some reason, the rest of the community seems to be happily continuing to actually play games on GoS. Of the three people I see on Mnet right now, one is also on GoS (dac) and the other two appear AFK... seems like at least for now the community has already made its decision?

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:12

Cutard wrote:You are just dropping red herrings, strawmen and cowardly lions like a crazy man. You are actively marketing against Marius.net, the three of you have done it numerous times in this thread alone.

Would love to see where I've done any of the above.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:16

Cutard wrote:Not one of you has said a split community and one server being much easier to find is a good thing which is the whole argument.

No it isn't. This all started with LK very politely asking Punk to "Shut down the gate of storms server already."

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:18

I didn't limit it to new players did I? I primarily pointed to inactives. So yeah it would make sense when someone checks out mariusnet and sees 5 people playing a coop that they lose interest. Anyone who has played myth within the last five years, especially with competitive players, knows that people don't hang out long to get a good game going if others aren't around.

NewMutator: wasn't speaking to you. And actually the arguments against GoS started way before that but ok.

Punkuser: there were around 21 people on mnet earlier, and its still way easier to find than GoS but you keep on trucking. I personally would be pleased if everyone went to GoS and it was the #1 result on google, I made that clear pages ago. It isn't about what I want nor should it be what you want, it should be whats in the best interests of the community.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:23

Sorry, my bad, fixed it for you.

oh clearly the entire active community should give up its server preference (which right now is the majority for GoS), and the potential for any new features so as to accomodate the slight possibility of a new / inactive player trying to log in. I am sure the difference between the community being combined on marius or split up will really make a difference in whether a new player decides to stick with the game long-term or not as well, if / when that ever even happens. We should also give all of that up instead of just having mariusnet point to GoS, that would be too hard.

makes sense.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:25

Very cool, then there's no argument then. Perhaps GoS will be made default in the next Myth update pending completion of the basic features. In the meantime, just play wherever you want, and new players will have to make do. There are enough resources out there pointing the way, but there can always be more. My default channel video for nonsubscribers essentially shows how to login to GoS. Feel free to link to it: https://www.youtube.com/user/NewMutator

dac · Post by **dac** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:32

punkUser wrote:dac, you need to sit around and wait for my call like a good dog!

fixed that for you

blue bar should probably proclaim my greatness. still willing to help with some stuff when i have time. shit's crazy right now but offer stands!

noblesteed · Post by **noblesteed** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:37

Its fairly obvious the 2 servers are reducing activity. Theres normally more people on during QR and before and Id be very surprised if we saw any of the np/tcox that normally show up around this time. They probably will log onto marius see no one and log off

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:43

Ghengis, or noblesteed, however you prefer to be addressed, the problem is that reduced activity could be a function of things other than metaserver issues. Correlation does not imply causation. It's definitely possible you're right, but it's not a foregone conclusion by any means. At any rate, I'm hopeful that GoS catches on because I'm a big fan of the automatic stats and film streaming.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:44

P.S. Hop on Mumble sometime so I can interview you.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:45

noblesteed wrote:Its fairly obvious

no, it's really not.

again, simple bluebar or announcement pointing to GoS will do. not sure what is so difficult about that.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:49

Can we discuss some solutions rather than just arguing which is better?

For starters, is there a simple way to open two myth clients without copying over the entire myth folder? I know with skype you can launch a second instance by making a shortcut to the .exe and adding /secondary at the end of the shortcut link. Any easy way to idle in both lobbies?

Will there be a "Who's online" feature for GoS? Could we pull the "Who's online" data from Mnet and have both "Who's online" on the same page to easily see who is active on both servers?

How difficult would it be to change the login screen of the myth client to make the multiple servers more visible?

How about an optional frame in the browser window to see the other server; like an oldschool iframe? No idea if this is possible, just throwing out ideas.

I know none of these are good ideas, but it is something, I assume you guys can think of better ones.

Let's be pro active here instead of just arguing, there are probably many ways to solve this problem other than simply a blue bar.

noblesteed · Post by **noblesteed** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:52

GKG there is no blue bar or indication to go to GOS besides this website. Inactive players go to marius see no one and dont bother to come back. If you think we havent lost any players due to there being 2 servers your head is in the sand

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 06:55

noblesteed wrote:Its fairly obvious the 2 servers are reducing activity. Theres normally more people on during QR and before and Id be very surprised if we saw any of the np/tcox that normally show up around this time.

Honestly I think that has more to do with the fact that matches/fallbacks/details haven't even been posted yet... Par has gotta get on this :S

Besides, everyone important is already signed up for MWC, and everyone signed up for MWC already knows by the very fact of having a forum account here

So it sounds like we're mostly in agreement then that we just need to get the word out better. That said, how were people expected to find TheGjol, and yet they seemed to just fine. And anyone who can find Myth World Cup can find GoS now, so I think that merger has worked out well.

Why not start by getting a pile of people to ask PPE to add a blue bar message on Mnet. In the mean time we can just do what Milk does an set up a closed game that points people over here. The GoS plug with 1.8 so the mechanics are no more difficult than Mnet, but I'm sure we could add a note to the http://projectmagma.net/what/ page as wel, and potentially put something on the patch download pagel. I'll ask the project magma folks about that.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 07:02

Arsenal wrote: For starters, is there a simple way to open two myth clients without copying over the entire myth folder? I know with skype you can launch a second instance by making a shortcut to the .exe and adding /secondary at the end of the shortcut link. Any easy way to idle in both lobbies?

You can get fancy with symbolic links for plugins/tags directories, but fundamentally the two have to be launched from different directories, as they write stuff like logs/recordings/etc. to their working directories.

Arsenal wrote: Will there be a "Who's online" feature for GoS?

Possibly but not in the near term. MariusNet's appears to be broken since the server move as well.

Arsenal wrote: How difficult would it be to change the login screen of the myth client to make the multiple servers more visible?

Definitely possible but with no patch coming in the near term it's not going to make a difference there. I imagine a custom interface could change it as well, but again if you need to get people to download something, there's that issue.

The blue bar/closed game is really the best solution. Let's ask PPE for that.

I'll add that it's unlikely that there's some random myther that no one here has any contact with that is just going to come back out of the blue and get all confused. Why not let folks you are all in touch with know by word of mouth as well?

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 07:11

punkUser wrote:Honestly I think that has more to do with the fact that matches/fallbacks/details haven't even been posted yet... Par has gotta get on this :S

All that just went live, Punk. See here: http://forum.gateofstorms.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=853

Par's on it.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 19 Jun 2013, 07:17

NewMutator wrote: All that just went live, Punk. See here: http://forum.gateofstorms.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=853

Sweet! I expect that will kick up the activity levels a bit... not that they have been particularly lacking (just most people have been playing and watching 1v1s heh. Blame GKG

).

Honkey · Post by **Honkey** » 19 Jun 2013, 12:20

Is there not a way to Compliment all the hard work that has gone in to these sites... while still acknowledging that it doesn't make sense to replace a 10 year server with something different and unknown the first weekend of mwc?

I am all for change, improvement, and celebrating the efforts these fine gents have contributed to the community. I just do not think week 1 of mwc is the time to be switching servers. I have only skimmed the threads.... but I personally feel that adding anymore variables at this point could be counterproductive.

Thanks for the hardwork on the servers sites etc, I see it as a long term plan to really make myth more appealing and spice it up a bit.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 14:01

yes I am aware that there is no blue bar right now, that's what we are all talking about. that is the obvious and easy solution to the problem instead of shutting down any servers. so how about doing what punk asked, and bug PPE about it.

who cares if we lost some inactive nobody players, which i really just doubt anyway. really someone tried to come back within the last 2-3 weeks when the server first went down? Do you see a new worthwhile player that isn't a dummy account every 2-3 weeks? I don't.

The whole mwc crowd knows about GoS, and that's all that matters as far as I'm concerned.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 19 Jun 2013, 14:31

1.8 is more of a problem than either server. HUGE difference in gameplay. Can't click through the top bar is debilitating, as well as the adjusted viewing angles, so you see a smaller portion of the screen than you used to. The premature loading of the screen is stupid... as is the trading bar display.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 14:40

vote here:

http://forum.gateofstorms.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=862

let's just see what happens.

dac · Post by **dac** » 19 Jun 2013, 15:00

Honkey the point of GoS is to host tournament games and all of its features are tournament related and tournament centric. This is why it makes sense to switch for mwc and gkg's 1x1 tourney and zak's special olympics and milk's ffa etc etc.

Most people who come back to myth look for mwc. That occasional new player might see dead lobbies and get discouraged which sucks, but a blue bar on mnet would help with that.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 15:34

and off of what dac said, let's not forget that it is tournaments that actually keep the community active and going. you all pretend like random rabble games keep the community going, give me a break. random rabble games make a lot of players, including myself, want to quit this game all the time. So it doesn't surprise me that any new people that log in will leave relatively quickly, those games suck. why do you think myth is so dead in the off-season after mwc and there are no tournaments? nobody wants to play that shit. and why does nobody want to play that shit? because of shitty players. which shitty players? the same shitty players you are so concerned about not being able to find GoS.

but if tournaments are so important to the community, now that leads us to think that, "oh now we need a way to guide the new players to these tournament forums where the competitive community is at", blah blah blah. no one ever complained when we never used marius forums as the tournament forums (not that I remember anyway). how would the new players be able to find the tournament when its not on the mariusnet forums? or maybe no one complained because there was a big fat announcement for it via a blue bar and news post on the marius website. golly gee whiz..whuda thunk of that.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 18:02

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:1.8 is more of a problem than either server. HUGE difference in gameplay. Can't click through the top bar is debilitating, as well as the adjusted viewing angles, so you see a smaller portion of the screen than you used to. The premature loading of the screen is stupid... as is the trading bar display.

I think clicking through the top bar was probably an unintended exploit. I have no idea what else you're referring to. My understanding is that gameplay should be about the same. Most of the code changes are to things you'll likely never notice, or the UI.

noblesteed · Post by **noblesteed** » 19 Jun 2013, 19:37

I'm not talking about inactive nobodys I'm talking about ramirez, cave, stormrider, cw, rodekill, blonde, khan (i.e. people who typically show up right now but i havent seen on GoS)

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 19 Jun 2013, 19:44

cave was on GoS just today. Actually I am pretty sure he has been on GoS for a while now.

as for the rest, I didn't ever see them on mariusnet either, so what? you thought that they would end their year-plus long absence just in the last 2-3 weeks?

They can find out about GoS from these forums, if they know about this forum. And if they don't know about these forums, I am sure they all know a myther that knows that they can ask. They also have the projectmagma site.

again, nothing a few announcements from project magma or mariusnet couldn't fix. that is obviously way more practical than to eliminate all current GoS functionality and all promise for any new features in myth.

Chohan · Post by **Chohan** » 19 Jun 2013, 19:58

It doesn't effect me either way but, from someone playing on bungie and playmyth then marius one thing was obvious. Every time there was a server switch or a new server the population was negatively effected everytime. Not saying this would or will happen, just saying that happened.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:18

NewMutator wrote:
BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:1.8 is more of a problem than either server. HUGE difference in gameplay. Can't click through the top bar is debilitating, as well as the adjusted viewing angles, so you see a smaller portion of the screen than you used to. The premature loading of the screen is stupid... as is the trading bar display.
I think clicking through the top bar was probably an unintended exploit. I have no idea what else you're referring to. My understanding is that gameplay should be about the same. Most of the code changes are to things you'll likely never notice, or the UI.

It has ALWAYS been that way until 1.8

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:24

Exploits can persist a long time. See magic dirt or whatever. Just because it's ALWAYS been that way doesn't make it a legitimate feature.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:26

I'd be curious to know how many people actually make use of it to the extent that they'd rather revert to 1.7.2 because of its absence in 1.8.

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:34

I asked politely

GKG, Punk, Newmutator (whoever the fuck that is) shut the fuck up. You three clearly know nothing of this community or it's past. Myth has survivedy throughout the years due to the fact that there has been one server throughout it's timeline. Bungienet, then playmyth, then marius. If there had been multiple servers throughout myths timeline the community would have been fractured and myth would most likely not exist today. Having 12 players on each server doesn't help the community or new players logging on whatsoever. Please, collectively pull yours heads out of eachothers asses as the empirical evidence is more than enough to know you three haven't the slightest clue. You can barely get a game now on either server, this is hardly the experience anyone is aiming for. I'll ask again, please shut down your unestablished pop up tent of a test server, the real one is back after needed maintenance. The day may come when it's required, but that certainly isn't now.

nine · Post by **nine** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:39

Much like cruniac (HEY STUPID NEWBS, THAT ISNT REALLY CHOHAN), I honestly don't care either way.

But this is a fact:

Chohan wrote:from someone playing on bungie and playmyth then marius one thing was obvious. Every time there was a server switch or a new server the population was negatively affected every time.

so yeah, splintering a dead community at the expense of trivial new features when you're not even providing all the features marius had to begin with seems tantamount to masochism, but whatever. I get what you're trying to do, really I do, and I appreciate it all the same.

one time for kicks I used the metaserver code which was released back in like '03 or whenever to make my own 'playmyth' for the NC guys (incredibly easy to do, btw) and had fun blue-bar'ing ascii cocks to the lobby. Power can be fun, especially when you believe you're helping out. That doesn't bother me.

what does bother me however, is the troubling recurring theme I've gleaned from the 'OMG SAVED FILMS, THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!' triumvirate of punk, gkg, and mutator is the bullshit bitchy hipster attitude about "everyone important is here already, who cares about the others - let them play on marius and eat cake! LOL"

ostensibly, these "improvements" are for the good of the community, and the strange attachment to some random new server is altruistic in nature - yet in the same breath you're damning everyone that doesn't fit into your "myth 2 non-coop tournament scene super active players who are already registered to this pathetic excuse for a MWC only" box of snark.

troubling, I say.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:43

NewMutator wrote:Exploits can persist a long time. See magic dirt or whatever. Just because it's ALWAYS been that way doesn't make it a legitimate feature.

There are plenty of games, Myth included, where exploits and "illegitimate" features added value to the gameplay. Just because it wasn't intended doesn't mean it should be removed/fixed.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:48

Sure, doesn't mean it shouldn't be either, hence my second comment.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:51

Yeah, but why fix/change something that isn't really an issue? Wait, why am I telling that to someone who wants two servers?

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:55

nine wrote:what does bother me however, is the troubling recurring theme I've gleaned from the 'OMG SAVED FILMS, THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!' triumvirate of punk, gkg, and mutator is the bullshit bitchy hipster attitude about "everyone important is here already, who cares about the others - let them play on marius and eat cake! LOL"

ostensibly, these "improvements" are for the good of the community, and the strange attachment to some random new server is altruistic in nature - yet in the same breath you're damning everyone that doesn't fit into your "myth 2 non-coop tournament scene super active players who are already registered to this pathetic excuse for a MWC only" box of snark.

troubling, I say.

Serious? Where have I ever said anything to this effect? I think you're reading too much into things. Perhaps you got beef with GKG, fine. But don't pretend he speaks for me. I've already made explicit the reasons why I support the development of GoS (i.e. not shutting it down) several times in this very thread no less.

I'm very much of the opinion that you can do whatever you want, so I'm not sure why there's such an adamant lobby trying to force PunkUser to suit their whims. Who's being snarky?

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 19 Jun 2013, 21:57

Cu that wasn't "fixed"

Go ahead and talk to Project Magma about it. The change is a byproduct of optimizing the code, and the behavior wasn't changed intentionally. But I guess you're qualified to speak to others motivations before knowing the full story, as you, and others it seems, are wont to do.

Cutard · Post by **Cutard** » 19 Jun 2013, 22:03

NewMutator wrote:But I guess you're qualified to speak to others motivations before knowing the full story, as you, and others it seems, are wont to do.

NewMutator wrote:I think clicking through the top bar was probably an unintended exploit.

Indeed.