Turn off guest accounts, etc

Gate of Storms (GoS) is a metaserver (lobby) for Myth II Soulblighter multiplayer where you can play online with friends and strangers alike for free.
spoon
Posts: 55
Joined: 01 Mar 2013, 23:11
Contact:

Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by spoon »

Howdy

There has been an increase in hate speech and spamming in the lobby recently. Turning off guest accounts and adding an admin account would go a long way to reduce the amount of hate speech present in the GoS lobby.

Cheers,
spoon
Jon God
Posts: 17
Joined: 15 Jan 2013, 00:31
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by Jon God »

I agree with this. I regularly hang out with old Mothers that don't come back because they don't want to deal with the toxicity and hate that is being spewed every day.

As for trying to get new people interested in the game, it's hard when that's their first/every online experience when they go onto the metaserver.

Having that level of hate speech is a nonstarter.
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

Yep from what I've seen it's time to shut off guests. Logging in via Steam to get a metaserver account is pretty trivial but allows some level of accountability. People could alternatively just play in Tournament rooms but given that hasn't happened for any of the history of GoS, I think it's probably time to just disable guests.

I'll check back on the discussion in a week or so but that's certainly where I'm leaning given several reports of completely unacceptable behavior.
User avatar
BIG KROK V8 SS
Posts: 1716
Joined: 06 Jun 2013, 04:29
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by BIG KROK V8 SS »

What if you make guest accounts to only have the ability to send a message every 30 seconds or something to reduce the spamming? Basically keep guest accounts as an option but significantly reduce the access they have. I recall on Marius there being a language filter and it wouldn't even send messages if it contained certain words.

Relevant post:
1. Notice the game title
2. Notice when it was taken
3. The Admin tag looks good on me.
admin.jpg
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

Disabling lobby chat entirely for guest accounts is an option. I wouldn't want to do some rate-based thing as you could still work around that by logging in again or whatever, and the sort of objectionable content we're talking about could be a single message.

Guests could still of course join games and spam all they want in there, but you can always go to a tourney room or use password-protected games to avoid that when it happens. Not ideal for the same reasons as for the metaserver but maybe a reasonable compromise.

I'm not sure which would be a better solution for people here - let me know what you think.
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

The lobby chat restriction also would not prevent guests from creating games with inappropriate titles or similar either.

I think I'm still leaning towards disabling guest accounts as the burden to log in with Steam is not really unreasonable these days.
HMP
Posts: 42
Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 19:05
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by HMP »

Can you disable guest accounts and then have the server send an error message telling them to create an account if someone tries to log on as a guest?
User avatar
BIG KROK V8 SS
Posts: 1716
Joined: 06 Jun 2013, 04:29
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by BIG KROK V8 SS »

HMP wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 19:59 Can you disable guest accounts and then have the server send an error message telling them to create an account if someone tries to log on as a guest?
Yeah with a URL on where to go. Great idea actually. Or maybe some sort of pop up instructions when someone installs the game too. Have seen several new players on recently who said they found copies of the game in their parents homes. Still trying to figure out who their parents might have been but they don't seem to know.

Maybe in addition to that, allow guest accounts to log into the server, but supply them with a message that they will not be able to chat in the lobby until creating an account on steam, and like PunkUser said about hosting games.

I guess I don't really know if guest accounts are actual new players trying out the game or just people logging in to not be seen as their regular account?
User avatar
BIG KROK V8 SS
Posts: 1716
Joined: 06 Jun 2013, 04:29
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by BIG KROK V8 SS »

Apparently its pretty common for people to pretend to be me pretending to be guest/dummy accounts these days.
Stonewall
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 Sep 2018, 20:18
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by Stonewall »

I'm guessing this is derived from one or two people abusing the system? How about just IP baning the griefers?
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

IP bans are not a particularly reliable solution unfortunately. If this a real issue we need some actual accountability in the form of an account somewhere. Even then they can create new ones, but at least there are mechanisms in place on the Steam side to limit that abuse too much.

There's not a good way to send messages to people at login time that doesn't involve a client update. We could certainly let them join but not let them chat... and potentially not let them create games although the latter I would need to experiment with how the client handles it. It also might be possible for the metaserver to just rename guest games as well. Still doesn't prevent people from joining open games and spamming inside the game lobby but people do already have the ability to go to tournament rooms or similar to avoid that.
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

Guest accounts have been disabled. If you see registered users with poor behavior please screenshot and get their account URL/ID (you can click on their name in the info screen to get a link to their GoS page).
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

... and it should go without saying but to everyone wanting to keep causing trouble - I'd recommend you don't push your luck :) There are plenty of places on the internet for you to bring your non-Myth-related nonsense to so if you care about continuing to play Myth on GoS, maybe take it there.
tangoes
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 20:42
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by tangoes »

now that guest users are turned off i realize ive been logging in as a guest for years...

anyway, the user name and password I'm being given from GoS aren't working.

a little help?
par73
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Nov 2012, 15:33
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by par73 »

tangoes wrote: 15 Aug 2020, 00:52 now that guest users are turned off i realize ive been logging in as a guest for years...

anyway, the user name and password I'm being given from GoS aren't working.

a little help?
So when you go to gateofstorms.net/accounts and log in with steam, typing in the user name # and password does not work for you ?
tangoes
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 20:42
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by tangoes »

yeah.
logged in through steam.
have my gateofstorms user name and password.
use said login and password and it just says login or password is incorrect.
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

Can you PM me your GoS user url (once you log in you can click it from the dropdown) and the credentials you are trying to use to log in?

Ensure you are putting them in the right fields (not nickname) and that there's no confusion of 'i' vs 'l' vs '1' and that kind of thing. You can PM me a screenshot of your login page too if you are unsure.
Bias
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Sep 2020, 08:46
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by Bias »

Please stop making the service worse just to appease overly sensitive women who can't handle banter. Or at the very least have a sane method of account creation that doesn't involve signing up for cancerous third party garbage like Steam. I only ever used GoS to play with a couple of friends but if I can't even do that anymore without jumping through hoops I guess I won't even bother.
Cylarabes
Posts: 1
Joined: 07 Sep 2020, 13:57
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by Cylarabes »

I would also prefer not to have to connect to steam to log in to Gate of Storms, didn't seem like the abuse on the server was anything outside the bounds of normal internet weirdness and this feels kind of unnecessary.
punkUser
Posts: 1415
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 23:13
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by punkUser »

It's 2020, having an account "somewhere" is hardly a hurdle and has been required for basically all of Myth's lifetime anyways other than the past few years. Guests were a conceit to a period where GoS had its own awkward integration with forum accounts (and all the security issues that entails) rather than a proper integration with a OAUTH source like Steam. Steam is still the most obvious OAUTH source for a gaming application, like it or not. It is something that was planned to happen regardless of any other factors at some point; I just hadn't gotten around to it until other issues came up.

All that said, that's just to give you some background. It is not an invitation to post the 5000th unprompted opinion about what it's like being on the internet and thick skins and democracies and free speech and whatever other naive and irrelevant soap-boxing comes to your mind. As noted, it's 2020; accounts are ubiquitous and everyone knows what the internet is.

And just a reminder: the full source code for GoS is on github. I know some have already started to fiddle with it as I've already taken my time to answer a series of questions. If you just want to run your own server so you can customize all your own settings, it's pretty easy. If you want to change authentication from Steam to any other OAUTH2 source it's also not too hard.

All this is to say: just keep the attitude to yourselves. I certainly don't owe you anything. I've already given out the many hours of work I've done on this and will continue to run the current server for free (not to mention the work I've done in the Myth client). If having a Steam account is so offensive to you (yet having a forum account here on a consistently insecure platform isn't...), you are more than welcome to utilize any of the alternates described above.
HMP
Posts: 42
Joined: 14 Nov 2012, 19:05
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by HMP »

It's really not burdensome at all. You can create a free steam account, use it to make a GoS account, write down the password it gives you for myth, and then never need to log in to steam again. There is no requirement to install steam or remain logged in.
Bias
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Sep 2020, 08:46
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by Bias »

punkUser wrote: 07 Sep 2020, 16:33 It's 2020, having an account "somewhere" is hardly a hurdle and has been required for basically all of Myth's lifetime anyways other than the past few years. Guests were a conceit to a period where GoS had its own awkward integration with forum accounts (and all the security issues that entails) rather than a proper integration with a OAUTH source like Steam. Steam is still the most obvious OAUTH source for a gaming application, like it or not. It is something that was planned to happen regardless of any other factors at some point; I just hadn't gotten around to it until other issues came up.
Yes, I'm aware that it's the current year and that modern trends dictate we must make everything related to the internet worse on a yearly basis, but to be honest I've never really been sold on that line of reasoning. I imagine five years from now you're going to be bitching at me to log into Gate of Storms with my Facebook or god knows what else account because "It's 2025 bro don't you know how the internet works :^)". It's true that account creation has been necessary for most of Myth's lifetime. It was a problem and it was solved. You made progress and improved the Myth multiplayer experience by doing away with that requirement, and then you shit all over that progress for the most asinine reasons imaginable. A bad decision being a throwback to the old days is not an excuse for regression.
punkUser wrote: 07 Sep 2020, 16:33 All that said, that's just to give you some background. It is not an invitation to post the 5000th unprompted opinion about what it's like being on the internet and thick skins and democracies and free speech and whatever other naive and irrelevant soap-boxing comes to your mind. As noted, it's 2020; accounts are ubiquitous and everyone knows what the internet is.
Being unwilling to listen to opinions that directly involve the usage of your service in a major way is never a good look for an administrator. Why is it naive to say somebody should grow some goddamn skin? Works pretty well for other communities I'm part of. Requiring people to login via OAUTH authentication from a service they may or may not even use in order to play on GoS is going to discourage new people from playing the game far more than some guest saying bad words in the lobby. Although in my experience it's hardly just guests who engage in such behavior, almost like you're out of touch with your own community or something. If you continue down this road you're going to end up with a dying circlejerk filled with hypersensitive busybodies like OP, concerned more with policing discourse than playing the fucking game.
punkUser wrote: 07 Sep 2020, 16:33 All this is to say: just keep the attitude to yourselves. I certainly don't owe you anything. I've already given out the many hours of work I've done on this and will continue to run the current server for free (not to mention the work I've done in the Myth client).
I can appreciate the work you've put into Gate of Storms, but that doesn't make you immune to criticism when you act in a foolish way.
punkUser wrote: 07 Sep 2020, 16:33 If having a Steam account is so offensive to you (yet having a forum account here on a consistently insecure platform isn't...), you are more than welcome to utilize any of the alternates described above.
I don't particularly mind making a throwaway 10minutemail account on your forum in order to make posts on that forum. It's not ideal but it's not worth complaining about. What I do mind is being forced to sign up for an untrustworthy third party service that I have always been critical of in order to be able to make an account on a service that previously did not require me to do so. I see no reason why OAUTH authentication is a necessity for your use case, and even if there was a good reason to use it for accounts there is no legitimate reason for GoS to require accounts.
User avatar
BIG KROK V8 SS
Posts: 1716
Joined: 06 Jun 2013, 04:29
Contact:

Re: Turn off guest accounts, etc

Post by BIG KROK V8 SS »

I have absolutely no clue what steam is, nor do I have any desire to ever use it. I did not find it to be that big of a deal to simply make a regular account through there and just use the generated password to log in. Sounds like "bias" is the one being a whiny baby and needs to grow a thicker skin.

PunkUser didn't have to provide any of this for anyone. He's put in the work, time, and effort into doing something nobody else knows how to or wanted to. It's a gateway that enables us to play the greatest game ever devised and serves as a meeting place for the community. His message is simple; he wants people to create their own personal accounts, not be total assholes to each other on HIS server, and stop wasting his time on petty forum arguments like this one telling him what he should change. The equivalent of this would be to get into an email battle with zuckerberg over what the facebook format should look like. It's his product, if you don't like it, don't use it.
Post Reply