Gkg is shitting on myth's greatest legacy

[akira]

This tournament has been run like a cheap hotdog stand in a podunk town.

There are minimal rules posted anywhere. It's like Gkg is just waiting for something to happen so he can make up some bullshit to rule in his favor. He has done it in the past and he will most certainly do it in the future.

There are no brackets, no standings, no coherent results page, I can only imagine this nonsense is going to continue throughout this sad excuse for a tournament.

The only saving grace thus far are the maps, which as I understand it we have Asmo to thank for that. You know shit is dire when Asmo is the only one to deliver anything digestible.

This is the biggest sham in the history of modern myth. I can't believe Gkg is shitting on one of the greatest legacies in myth. We must hold him accountable!

I'll be joining a multitude of other players by not playing to protest the detestable lack of a quality tournament. I encourage you to do the same.

[Seeker]

Slow your roll akira. This is a well run tournament with zero drama.

Stop trying to insert your drama into proceedings that are going smoothly.

[Giant Killer General]

that is certainly your right to protest. sorry you feel that way, even if i disagree.

As i said when i first announced the tournament, i was totally open to having someone else host given someone else volunteers and the community votes in a transparent manner to elect that person. Nobody else even volunteered though. So oh well.

I am getting around to a standings/results page, it has only been the 2nd week of the tournament, haha.

yea, no brackets. sticking with that one as I already explained to LSO previously. There are 4 teams people, soon to be 3 teams probably. Jesus.

[Ratking]

As I've said before, this is largely a thankless job. I appreciate anyone jumping and doing it. I'm not sure we need a whole lot more than what we're getting from the TO at this point. More teams would have been great, but few ppl stepped up to take on that role. Shout out to garnish and Lso for doing their part. This was the first year in a while we haven't seen age playing too.

Perhaps our culture of gaming focuses too much on being a contender. I think a prevailing thought out there is if I can't win it why play. This is totally wrong however, as tournaments are really fun despite losing them. Perhaps we just aren't doing a good enough job recruiting and keeping new players. I think it would be a really cool idea to have a tournament where we take newer captains and have them mentored by established captains. Similar to what the UFC does with their TV show.

Maybe we need more TA's and content out there to get ppl excited. I remember years ago reading all the TA's of other players and it was really cool to see. There was a bigger emphasis on being competitive, getting better. Maybe we just need to share more of what we know and do to encourage others to step up. Of course, that was when grim was putting a lot of time and effort into running these things, and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to duplicate the same effort.

[akira]

Well to be honest, the bar was set when Paris of all people got bitched at last year (and somehow inspired an alternative mwc) for not having a visual bracket or something else significantly less than what to expect from MWC17's production. RK couldn't be more right, running tournaments is so very thankless. After that shameful event, I'm very thankful someone is running MWC.

Historically, the MWC TO's job has been to get a bunch of teams to play some Myth in a legendary format. It's not bout winning or losing, it's about playing MWC with a bunch of teams. This MWC was set up so one team could win, not to get a bunch of teams together to play Myth. Long live Myth.

edit: for real tho, these map picks are real good.

[Giant Killer General]

i am not sure why the paris fiasco from mwc16 is relevant here, but what you just stated is factually incorrect. the issues during mwc16 had nothing to do with not having brackets. And even if it did, that tournament was a double elimination format with a QR (not triple elimination such as mine) which has significantly easier brackets to make, and it also had 8 teams (albeit artificially inflated by allowing people to play on 2 teams) which makes brackets significantly more important versus our 4 teams this year.

Instead, paris had other issues such as not putting up an mwc forum for a while because he was waiting on toxyn to make a website (when toxyn is notoriously unreliable), unclear team rosters with the whole secondary player system, putting in a point system that nobody wants to deal with, bad map picks, making rule changes to the QR after most of the QR was already mostly done which would kick losing teams to the bottom bracket right away without warning, and so on (see for yourself here: http://www.myrgard.com/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=3330).

thankfully the only thing I have screwed up so far is very briefly removing a 4th team that I (incorrectly) thought was inactive and going to no-show due to no posting on the forum - a team also of which I had taken the initiative in forming and supporting (including volunteering to captain it) in the first place. And I also immediately reversed and apologized for that once I learned that they would show.

I agree the quality of the teams this year is not great. I made 1 good team myself, and was hoping if I put my team out there first with 2 months advanced notice that someone would build a team to contend with it. I only ever wanted 2 good teams and 2 filler teams, because that is all I think anyone can reasonably expect at this point. I did not set out to completely overstack my team, this is the same team I have been playing with for years, and look forward to playing with each year for mwc. And if people want to all of a sudden blame the state of myth on me, then so be it. Haters gonna hate. But I don't feel any responsibility for that, so I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

That being said, the tws16 finals featured very similar teams with syn vs vaalbara, and syn ended up winning that (albeit with a player advantage, and with me just joining the team for the last 2 weeks of the tournament to save vaalbara from playing even further undermanned). So who knows what can happen I suppose.

[Ratking]

Personally I think playing against a really good team (gkg's) gives me motivation to try harder and be more involved. I think what we really suffer from is a lack of teams in general. I don't think having a system in place that allows players to move fluidly between team is good outside of QR.

Perhaps another idea is a new take on tournaments in general. We have tried quite a few ideas, some with success, but I'm sure we haven't reach the bottom on the well yet. Perhaps and old school vs. new school deal. Or, perhaps something like what Cu did earlier this year. Or was it 2016? Anyway, I think we should keep moving forward. The book of myth's history needs climax, not a slow ending!

[wwo]

People have their own reasons for playing. The whiners complaining about a lack of competitiveness aren't doing shit about it besides saying "I can't attract enough good players to be on my team", and they don't have the personality to encourage the vast pool of 2-3 ballers to get better, or inspire the slackers to play to their capacity.

[Giant Killer General]

in hindsight, this post by akira is a very obvious attempt to troll, since every single post by akira in this tournament so far has only been for trolling purposes. So I think it is safe to fully ignore him at this point.

[akira]

in hindsight, this post by akira is a very obvious attempt to troll, since every single post by akira in this tournament so far has only been for trolling purposes. So I think it is safe to fully ignore him at this point.

Call it what you want, this tourney sucks. The only 8 people you advertised it to are on your team. Garnish did more promotion than you, and he only told discord. You literally did not lift a finger beyond your own team. And for that I hope you beat the fuck out of tirri.

[Giant Killer General]

translation: this tourney sucks because I did not get onto 1 of the 2 good teams.

[akira]

translation: this tourney sucks because I did not get onto 1 of the 2 good teams.

This shits true no matter what team I'm on. Gkg world cup

[adrenaline]

The salary cap idea has been tried before, right? It's really the only plausible way to spread out the talent and have an actual competitive tournament where every team has a realistic shot at winning. A draft with a salary cap would be good to see... which... may also have been done already, not sure.

[Giant Killer General]

salary cap was tried by grim in mwc13. it was unpopular, I was heavily against it, and he removed it soon thereafter due to the rebellion against it (of which I was a vocal part of the opposition as well). There is no good way to institute a fair system for ball ratings. It puts way too much power in the hands of the TO, so people would just bitch all tournament about how the ratings were rigged. And I promptly did as well at the time because grim jacked up my teams ratings by inflating several players (which would have forced me to cut probably 2 people that I wanted, and replace them with people that I did not want).

In anything along the lines of that type of format, I would 100% say the TO would have to be a non-player in the tournament to be as unbiased as possible. People are already bitching about me playing in this tournament (really just 3 people so far - bh, akira, and paris - ironically 2 of which who have played in their own tournaments as well, both just prior to this one). It is mostly trolling though.

[HMP]

What about giving captains a "budget" and then having them bid on players - could be either open or secret bids.

[Giant Killer General]

But that is basically similar to the traditional draft format, hmp. Every captain is given 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, etc. so you decide how to prioritize your picks (as if they were bids). The problem is that, quite frankly, there are very few people who are even well qualified to evaluate talent. So basically most of the captains doing the picking don't actually pick a good team even. Many draft tournaments have still had horribly unbalanced teams, because most of the captains have no idea how to pick players.

Personally, I think all-star matches are the way to go - the best 16 players that show up play. Last time we got exactly 16 players, no one was left out and everyone got to play. And it worked out quite nicely with great teams.

But maybe if you change the format that drastically, it should cease to be called mwc anymore. It probably should be called something else if it is anything but free and open teams as mwc has always been.

[akira]

salary cap was tried by grim in mwc13. it was unpopular, I was heavily against it, and he removed it soon thereafter due to the rebellion against it (of which I was a vocal part of the opposition as well). There is no good way to institute a fair system for ball ratings. It puts way too much power in the hands of the TO, so people would just bitch all tournament about how the ratings were rigged. And I promptly did as well at the time because grim jacked up my teams ratings by inflating several players (which would have forced me to cut probably 2 people that I wanted, and replace them with people that I did not want).

In anything along the lines of that type of format, I would 100% say the TO would have to be a non-player in the tournament to be as unbiased as possible. People are already bitching about me playing in this tournament (really just 3 people so far - bh, akira, and paris - ironically 2 of which who have played in their own tournaments as well, both just prior to this one). It is mostly trolling though.

to be clear, the reason i'm bitching at you is NOT because you are playing in your own tournament, that fact accounts for 0/50 grievances I have against you. top 4 reasons i'm bitching at you:

1) the primary reason you set up MWC was such that you could win a tournament. that's fine for any other tournament you want to run, but not for MWC
2) all of the rules are not clearly laid out. lay them all out beforehand, and anyone who bitches at them after the fact is a cuck.
3) vague rules compound the fact we have a TO who set up MWC such to increase the chances his team would win. You could address rules vagueness by appointing someone neutral like Cu to rule over any dispute, but you haven't done that, so ignorance or malice?
4) there's literally no production, no excitement. this has been the most anti-climactic tournament in recent history.
5) it's incredibly disorganized. There's the very basic elements of a tournament: RULES, TEAMS/PLAYERS/TA's, MAPS, PROGRESS(e.g. standings. after my original post things did get a bit more organized, as we got a post resembling tournament rules stickied. that's a win for everyone.

TWDS17 utilized crowd sourced threat assessments. everyone voted on everyone. That's a democratic way to assess threat. once you have player and/or captain threat asessments (or even set captains) there are many ways to get players onto teams in a fair and balanced manner, like a snake draft: http://www.dummies.com/sports/fantasy-s ... on-drafts/

I'm playing the role of my fellow myther/TO's keeper in the most nerd ragey shitposting way possible. Truly though, thank you GKG for hosting the not-quite-mwc-mostly-GKG-World Cup 2017. I do appreciate your effort as I don't know who would have stepped up had you not.

[Giant Killer General]

1) I have won the last 7 mwc's that I played in, in a row - none of which I have hosted. so where is your evidence that this is the reason I am hosting it this year? Is that then the only reason you hosted twsd17? or why paris hosted all the tournaments he hosted? What a ridiculously stupid thing to say.
2) rules were clearly laid out in the original mwc announcement, you apparently didn't even look at it. I only copy pasted what was in the original thread for you.
3) rules are vague? Cite any example. also did you appoint anyone neutral in your own tourney that you hosted? No. Has any MWC host that played in the tournament done this? No. Nice double standard.
4) what other "production" are you looking for? It is mwc in the year 2017. Sorry I didn't budget in some personal money to throw at the production value for you.
5) So by "disorganized" , you really mean you just don't have "official" threat assessments by the "TO" - even though other players have done them on their own. I guess you got me on that one then. I don't care about doing them myself, nor do I care about "crowdsourcing" them - crowdsourced TA's have always been hyper-biased horseshit. Apparently, the only one that cares about this is you.

Great, your claim to fame as a TO is doing a crowdsourced TA page that nobody gave a shit about. Meanwhile, during your tournament one of your winning teams (including some former allies of yours) threatened to remove themselves because of your incompetence with rule changes yourself. Great job dude. At least you had a crowdsourced TA paged though, right?

So this is what this is what this is all about, an e-peen contest over TO-ing, much like paris. Show me someone outside of you, kilgrath, and paris, who is this upset over me as TO. I am still looking forward to the big group of players that are supposed to be boycotting the tournament over me as TO as well.

[wwo]

Is this trolling? I'm surprised gkg is even responding.

I wish zak wasn't on drugs all the time. I'd like to completely revamp myth's units into a more stable but varied set, then move on to standardizing m2's maps. It's time for myth to evolve.

[Giant Killer General]

In true akira fashion, it is part-trolling, part-butthurt, and part-idiocy. I am surprised I am responding too, but couldn't help myself. It's been kind of fun, honestly.

[akira]

you definitely didn't win MWC'16 and you did participate in that one.

1) evidence is your behavior. how many ppl did you tell about mwc2017 that weren't on your team?
2) patently not true. you've been adding rules since i've lit a public fire under your ass. but not going to knock you for that. so gj
3) you're the only person that's bringing up the fact you're TO & host. not a double standard, just don't trust you because of 1) and past behavior
4) you've added the bare minimum since this thread, appreciate it.
5) see 4)

[Giant Killer General]

Well, you can either say I won mwc16 because I won the alternative finals against the improved version of the team that won the regular finals, and because it featured 2 better teams than any team in the regular finals (which is what I say), or you can say that I didn't win mwc16 and I also did not participate in it. You cannot have it both ways though, since I clearly did not participate in the regular mwc2016. Look it up yourself: http://gateofstorms.net/tournaments/MWC2016

1) oooohhh, such malicious behavior. I put in some effort in telling mythers about mwc by posting it in the forums and in the myth lobby - which is sufficient enough to get all the currently active players. I relied on the community to spread the word to get whatever other inactive players that might be out there, which they did. If I didn't put in enough effort to satisfy you, you are basically the only one and I don't care. Everyone was free to put more effort into it, not just me.
2) i literally copy and pasted the rules from the original announcement thread to the new official rules thread just so it was easier to see. there was 0 change to the rules. otherwise, tell me what changed? right, nothing. If I wanted to change them, I could change them just as easily now as I did before, me reposting them in another thread so it could be stickied to the top changes nothing.
3) you still didn't answer the question. Did you ever appoint anyone neutral when you hosted, or did paris? Here, I'll answer it for you: no.
4) yep, I only reposted the rules for easier viewing since you complained about it. good job.

how many more lies is it going to be?

troll harder, akira. Much, much harder.

[akira]

i don't need to try hard, i get paragraphs out of you with minimal effort

[Giant Killer General]

thanks for admitting that you are trolling and lying about everything. but didn't anyone ever tell you that you aren't supposed to admit you are trolling? You can't be an effective troll if everyone knows you are trolling, duh!

Oh no, the gig is up!

[akira]

thanks for admitting that you are trolling and lying about everything. but didn't anyone ever tell you that you aren't supposed to admit you are trolling? You can't be an effective troll if everyone knows you are trolling, duh!

Oh no, the gig is up!

Don't confuse hyperbole with trolling

[Phos]

GKG,

I think you are doing a good job running this tournament, I know it is a thankless job and I want to continue to thank you for staying on top of everything.

Is it a fair tournament that gives all of the teams a fighting chance? No. Should it be? No, I think MWC is about declaring the best team of the year, and that is what MWC 17 will do.

So far, your team has performed extremely well, and it would take an act of God for that to change, particuarly given the triple elim format. That's completely valid, and you guys will deserve it, if and when you win this tourney. Myth World Cup was historically a double elimination tournament, and triple elim is definitely in that spirit.

I played in MWC 1998, 1999 and 2000. After that, I left myth as real life caught up to me, and I have no regrets, but I'm glad I decided to start playing myth again in December of 2015. It is a real cool game, I honestly think it could be the chess of our time, a game that could stand the test of time. We shall see

In 1998, my team finished 10 out of 80, and in 1999 we finished 7 out of 96. This was Evil Inc, the team I led and captained. In 1999, we were really close to making it to the finals, but got eliminated by that year's winners, Civil, in a close match! (https://www.macobserver.com/mwc99/dynam ... index.html) I would have argued that we were actually the number 2 or number 3 team that year, but as we were eliminated by the top team, history records us as being #7. Our other loss that year was a game where I couldn't make it, similar to Dragon Army's lost on Sunday.

I'm glad to be a part of MWC 2017, as I was MWC 2016 where I captained a team again for the first time since 2000, even if I got somewhat duped into leading that team by LSO's dummy accounts! I'm honored to be on Ratking's team, who is definitely in the top 2 captains of myth in this age, and an argument could even be made that is the best captain, even if he claims to be 2nd. Dragon Army suffered a big loss on Sunday when Ratking was extremly sick, and not able to captain nor attend all but 1 one of the games, and my hat is off to the Berzerkers for that. Cheers,

Phos

[Giant Killer General]

thanks phos.