Show me the proof seeker says...

[Honkey]

http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/10/ ... wikileaks/

Summaries + primary sources all at your finger tips. Sadly I wasnt able to find the cooking recipes you were telling me about.

[DBSeeker]

OPEN BORDERS = a crime & corruption.

Lol. Enough said. I don't need to see anything else beyond that.

OH, and that first point about POTUS knowing about the email server is trash that was debunked on March 9, 2015, way before this supposed wikileaks discovery:

"The email chain was spurred by a CBS News interview March 7, 2015, where correspondent Bill Plante asked the President about Clinton's private email "setup," which had been reported in The New York Times earlier that week. Obama's response was that he first learned about it via the news.

Two days later, White House spokesman Josh Earnest clarified the President's answer, saying that while Obama received emails from Clinton, he was unaware of her private email server.
"The point that the President was making is not that he didn't know Secretary Clinton's email address -- he did -- but he was not aware of the details of how that email address and that server had been set up or how Secretary Clinton and her team were planning to comply with the Federal Records Act," Earnest said on March 9, 2015."

[DBSeeker]

Oh wait, this is such a stupid website:

http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/11/ ... -revealed/

JOHN PODESTA IS A PEDOPHILE.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/11/ ... n-of-wifi/

THE WEAPONIZATION OF WIFI:

"Editor’s Note: This is an important article to read. It adds further evidence that there is a long range covert agenda by our Illuminated friends to electronically enslave the entire human race using microwave and scalar technology. "

MY LOCAL PIZZA SHOP - A PELOSI FRONT:

http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/11/ ... democrats/

[wwo]

Seeker's just salty because his H-1B won't be getting renewed.

[Honkey]

No actually seeker is a good guy IMO (no sarcasm). Most liberals in fact are good people... and what they get twisted is the alt right (I believe is what I'm considered) are just as big of proponents of civil liberty... potentially even more so.

We are all guilty of relevancy bias at times and quite frankly if I weren't white I'd likely be more fearful and upset... and based on some of the stuff trump has said you can't blame people people for being scared.

As I've gotten older (contrary to the citations in my past) most of my "conspiracy" thoughts have evolved from believing the same conspiracies while at the same time dismissing the notion of religion being the motivator but rather money and evil. Religion is simply a red herring... and a scape goat and a counter intuitive point of discussion.

At the same time I am highly frustrated when people over simplify very complex issues and immediately label a person one way or the other based on something like a presidential vote. I am frustrated when people who hate corporations and big money and 1% use the message promoted by the media owned by the same people they despise as points of contention.

Ie... I got shit on for info wars but they had the most accurate polling and predicted the election much better than a vast majority of main stream propoganda.... they've been calling the election to Trump for some time and people act arrogant and dismiss them. But see where it backfired is... while the powers that be kept telling people how much hillary was going to win with their mind games... many were complacent. Now had they taken the message of places such as info wars seriously... they would have seen tha trump movement was much more of a threat than they could have ever imagined. When people are told how much the candidate has already won 5000 time a second... the motivation to make their voice heard is not nearly as strong. Its the first thing you lesrn in cpr class... dont say "somebody call 911"... you pick and individual and task them with calli g 911 otherwise peoole will stand there waiting for someone else to do it. The question is do you learn this lesson and accept that "alternative news" often does have merit... or do you just finger point and call people racists and dismiss them.

And the last point in regards to wiki leaks is... you can dismiss them and that's ok... but.... you can't pick and choose when to dismiss them. Just remember... when Obama was elected a lot of it had to do with war weariness and his stance on the Iraq war which was bolstered by wiki leaks findings. It was credible then... and just because it isn't favorable to your position it's credible now. Idgaf who debunked it.... it's kinda like saying hillary wasn't charged so she didn't commit a crime. That's fine to feel that way... but just remember that's the same as saying "a police officer illegally shot someone and because other police officers found them not guilty they didn't commit a crime". When your judge and jury are your peers of course you are going to get favorable treatment.

[DBSeeker]

I'm not dismissing wikileaks.

I am dismissing The Millennium Report's interpretation of the leaks.

In any case, this is the best leaked email:

http://www.foodandwine.com/news/wikilea ... my-risotto

[Honkey]

I didn't buy a their interpretations either that would be foolish. I did read some of the source and they were alarming enough to raise reasonable questions. Couple that with the fact that there is some talk (not sure how accurate it is) that hillary may be pre pardoned and it holds more water. There was minimal to no denial of many of the emails but rather vague statements on Russian actors... and the head of dnc even resigned over them... thus implying they weren't fabricated.

Regardless sorry I was so in your face about things... I am guilty of the same behavior that I feel drives me crazy about others and it is hypocritical. I don't want people to feel shitty or unsafe and just know that people like myself are 100% against any policy that would require registration of religion, strip individual rights, or persecute anyone for superficial reasons. I honestly don't believe that will be the case with this change in political spectrum but rest assured if it ever is the case... there is a reason people like me support the 2nd ammendment because that is called tyranny.

[wwo]

I can't tell you how fun it is making risotto. Delicious, too. Once proficient in the base dish, you can experiment with adding things like small shrimp or peas.

[sharkdrivingabus]

I accept your sencerity on these issues honkey - but if you truly believe what you're saying then why do you support someone who made campaign promises to persecute people based on religion and race?

[Honkey]

I was never a Trump supporter tb. Didn't vote for him. I was just happy hillary wasn't president (her reproductive organs the least of my concern) and made a spiteful comment that all the outrage/reactions are making me glad he won when asked by flat my thoughts. Which clearly distressed seeker and ultimately lead to me leaving the channel.

Ultimately as I've stated unwavering for years I don't feel we have real elections anyway when my current beliefs were framed as anti semitism (when it would actually be anti Zionsism if I felt that way) that was kind of it for me in the conversation... hence my point about alternative media.

To which point I was told the only thing in those emails was a recipe and you see my response. Regardless my entire view on much of this is they were 2 very different elections..... one with social issues as the primary concern and one with economic issues at the primary concern.

Doubling down on economic policies people dislike is the root. While the coasts have thrived the last 8 years the rest of the country has deteriorated. The best way I can phrase it is you have an entire middle of the country still going backwards economically and the same way the left views those people as bigots those people view the left as people trying to economically destroy them. Anyway that's at least my view and the fact that I've talked to friends in nyc and DC and they didn't even feel this was possible... shows the vast different world's everyone lives in. Frankly we should just be state or regionally governed and everyone would be happy imo.

[DBSeeker]

I never said the only thing in the emails was recipes.

I said it's what I found to be the best part of the release.

As for you never being a Trump supporter - you just said that the protests convinced you that you are glad he won. That's called supporting Trump.

To say otherwise is like saying that I don't want Japan, South Korea, and Saudi Arabia should get nukes, but the world would be a better place if they do have nukes.

[Honkey]

Well of course I'm glad trump won because she didnt.. and not to make America great again... not to keep other races down... not cause I hate women... and maybe there were some who felt that way... but not me... in fact his victory actually made me feel sympathetic for the left which I had a much greater disdain for prior to seeing the sadneas in a lot of friends. Forgive me that as a small business owner I am more concerned with the additional overhead and concerned more and more that the regulations and additional expense meant to "hurt big corporations" really kills small business while corporations are free to continue to out source work. I feel it goes beyond the narrative of equality when if you listened to Tim Kaine in the vp debate he said (in regards to how free college will be paid for)... "we will raise payroll taxes". As a business owner and self employed I already pay double the Medicare and social security via self employment tax, income tax, 7.5% payroll tax on my employees, need to match their health insurance etc. On top of that you have a group pushing a minimum wage that in Chicago may be reasonable certainly isn't a level necessary where I live to sustain and even save and on top of that I get penalized if I don't want to purchase health plans that do not give me the choice and flexibility I want.

I have interviewed several candidates on welfare that told me they didn't want me to pay them more than 14k a year when the job offered more... wanna know why? Cause they saw my job as a raise over career welfare and benefits reduxe over 14k income.. while I work 80 hour weeks sometimes so my employees can make more than me. We're even doing alright in sales... but I've decided to sell my agency because it isn't worth it... bye bye 3 jobs for the people I employ as I'm done paying 45% of my income in tax, get no overtime or workers rights or even unemployment from the state if I fail. The risk reward for tryinf to succeed is completely misalligned and dnc wwanted to add to an empkoyers burden even more.See the thing is I am extremely left on social issues and extremely right on financial issues and have been very consistent the entire time I've triggered you on the forums... agree or not at leaSt I am consistent and have solid reasoning as to my beliefs well beyond the Brooklyn narrative of me hating black people. They'll see if their start up ever succeeds.

[DBSeeker]

"Triggered." Sounds like some quality alt-right reddit language to me. Just admit it already.

At least KROK & Pogue don't hide it...

Regulations - yep. That climate can just suck a big one, right Honkey?

[sharkdrivingabus]

Holy shit that was hard to follow. That's some Paris-level rambling you got going on, Honkey

So basically, if I am to interpret this correctly, you're saying "I don't support him, but I'm glad his opponent lost"? What exactly do you think it means to support someone then?

The latter part of your argument seems to be based on the concept that republican tax cuts and deregulation are so valuable that you're willing to put up with overt racism, LGBT discrimination, and staunch social conservatism. So basically, you're willing to overlook oppression of other people as long as you benefit financially? Sadly, I think a lot of people share your sentiments and there's nothing much else to say.

[Giant Killer General]

Wait, you mean seeker and tb have not been hardcore trump supporters all this time? I feel so cheated...

I may regret entering this convo, but doing it anyway.

Let me defend honkey in one small way here. I am not a trump supporter either, but I am glad he won too (albeit for different reasons, I'm sure). You guys are arguing over semantics on that one. It could be correct to call anyone who is glad he won a trump supporter, it could also be correct to say that some are not actually trump supporters because they didn't vote for him, didn't endorse him, etc.. It all depends on what you mean by "supporter" and what threshold you set to qualify such a label. So this is small and meaningless potatoes to argue over since he made very clear what he meant by not considering himself a supporter which you no-doubt understood.

This distinction is especially important now since this sort of sentiment is more prevalent than usual in this election given the 2 horrible options presented to the American public. Even if you liked either of the 2 options, you surely must be aware that both options were deeply unpopular more broadly.

Now let me not defend honkey. I just find it funny how he has such a high sense of individual personal responsibility, but when it comes to his own situation, he has to use the government as a scapegoat. That is right-wing hypocrisy 101 right there. There are a lot worse places to start a small business than America, and plenty of people are still able to do it. And yea, like 95% of small businesses fail within 5 years regardless of what the government does, so what. 80+ hour work weeks for a small business owner is also completely normal. That's just par for the course. You don't like entitlement or self-victimization in others, but you aren't entitled to anything either.

Maybe you have some other valid points, but then you should pick and choose your fights more carefully as you discredit yourself with silly statements like that.

[par73]

Well of course I'm glad trump won because she didnt.. and not to make America great again...

how terrible, where is your sense of patriotism ?

[Honkey]

Based on your assumptions seeker you are also alt right. Fun little digression.... alt right is essentially undefined at this juncture... not a member of the alt right Chan movement in the least... but have subscribed to alt right media for analysis in the past. Info wars by definition is alt right and certainly speaks regularly against issues like war on drugs etc.

Now anyway seeker the reason I used the word triggered is because in your anger against me you legitimately said "you have always triggered me".

[Honkey]

Gkg I was merely pointing out what people such as trump said regarding taxation and regulation destroying small business. Most small businesses fail due to extreme regulation etc. I was using myself as an example of the risk reward proposition being imbalanced.... and then pointed out that tim kaine said he would further raise payroll taxes.. a complete contradiction.

My business didn't fail... I simply decided that it was no longer worth the work and life balance nor put in the effort where I am essentially penalized for creating jobs. More so playing to the narrative that the big bad business owner doesn't pay their fair share when most of us pay way more taxes than the individual and do not get the same rights they are afforded. Ie....things as simple as unemployment insurance, employer match on health care, minimum wage.

You are right many new business do fail and a big reason is they have no knowledge of the regulatory environment and make terrible cost calculations.

[Honkey]

Tb I wouldn't call it benefiting financially... I think many would refer to it as surviving financially. Maslows hierarchy explains it all and social justice for others is higher on the pyramid than food and shelter.

And realistically I have supported a candidate who 100% supports gay marriage, ending war on drugs which in my humble belief are the 2 biggest discrimination issues we face. Gary Johnson also supports extreme financial conservatism and why he got my vote and did last election as well. I'm gonna be very frank... in the Midwest under our holy and inclusive democrats the minority black population has been absolutely raped and pillaged and incarcerated at record rates. Ultimately if the dems really wanted their lives to get better they would maybe... I don't know? End the war on drugs? Trump says stupid racist incindiary things... I know this. I also know that the banks launder street drug money with impunity while street level dealers do 30 and no meaningful legislation has been passed by dems to end this tragedy and we have had 16 years of their administration since the 90s. Maybe democrats are racist too? Maybe 100 year plus of their rule in cities like Chicago and Milwaukee shows their real concern towards minority populations and their real feelings on racial equality? Seems their actions have greatly underperformed their so called intentions.

[Giant Killer General]

Well you make it sound like government should make running a business as easy as taking candy from a baby, when you are noting 80 hour work weeks and high financial risk as if that has not always been a natural part of starting / running a business in every part of the world since forever. Your point of the basic and universal difficulties of running a business is completely irrelevant as a criticism against the government, because nearly all of those basic difficulties would be there regardless of what the government did. This just reveals a massive bias and quick eagerness to blame the government for absolutely everything possible (which is further misguided itself when corporate interests corrupting the government is the true core issue).

If you think there should be some tax / regulatory reform, then great, stick to that without bringing up what pretty much every single business owner has to do as if that should garner some sympathy for you. And furthermore, some specifics would be more useful instead of speaking in general and absolute terms of how taxes and regulation are bad. Nuance is needed here, since clearly some taxes and regulation are good and needed. It is all about balance, so if it is out of balance then talk about where the balance should be. As of now you don't really seem to know where the balance is either, you just think it should be less.

[Honkey]

I wilI be happy to respond to this when I get home.

[dac]

clearly some taxes and regulation are good and needed.

wishy washy statement, and false. taxation is theft bro, i dont care if you disagree. it might as well read "clearly if you dont believe in our lord and savior jesus christ you're going to hell so church is needed."

It is all about balance, so if it is out of balance then talk about where the balance should be.

citation needed.

imo, it's about personal rights and freedoms. taxation is a violation of both, even if you can justify the expenditures for the collective. if the ends justify the means, then chinese sweat shops are fucking fantastic for american bottom lines and slavery was amazing for the textile industry, and the availability of cheap cotton for the west was well worth the price of a few hundred miserable lives here and there. cuz ya know, balance.

[Giant Killer General]

we've already discussed this at length dac, i'm not sure why you want to rehash it here. I already understand what your position is, as you should already understand mine.

don't care if you disagree either. that's kind of like your opinion man. Which is fine. But basically 99% of the population would agree with my statement that some kind of taxes and regulation is needed at some basic level. Even most conservatives and libertarians would agree with that (which you have previously conceded as true as well). So it's safe for me to talk with the assumption that everyone agrees with that since 99% of people do. You wouldn't want to have to use proper pronouns or any other sort of accommodations for the fraction of 1% of the trans community, would you? Well then what are you trying to do here? Make me speak in less certain terms to accommodate people with your beliefs? You are the fraction of 1% here.

I'll let honkey speak for himself whether he agrees with you or not. But when I talk to people I am always going to assume they agree with that statement because it is a very non-controversial, safe statement to make for the overwhelming majority of people.

[Asmodian]

I haven't been following this; I'm guessing it started up in another thread. Do you honestly believe that there should be NO taxes & regulations Dac? If that's the case you need should go live in another country for a little while and that will change your mind. It's not very fun driving on roads where there are literally 10 ft holes in the middle of the road or being unable to drink what use to be clean water because people just throw their trash in the road and in the streams.

[Honkey]

Hey asmo this all started on discord. Anyway gkg you're a smart dude... read a book called the creature from jeckyll island. It explains the taxation system at length.

State taxes are great. Federal taxes and social security and Medicare ponzi schemes only have a negative consequence on the economy... but at the same time you can't fuck the first people who paid in over.

I would have a much much larger retirement if I took my social security money and put it in a private investment or was able to use those funds to grow a business. Medicare I feel is a little more legit in terms to the people it helps.

If you look at entitlement programs about 15% of the money is already earmarked for these programs that many paying today will not have themselves. Imagine what we could do with an extra 15% of the economy not state controlled in those regards.

[Honkey]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... _fed04.htm

I've included a review of the book as I don't expect you to buy it.

[Giant Killer General]

there is nothing magical about the federal government compared to the state government. it is just another larger abstraction of government. You only treat them different because of the way they have divided up their responsibilities and you prefer the traditionally state functions over the traditionally federal ones. But they are all still part of the same system that works together. So taking away the federal government just means that the states will just start take over the functions that the federal government once provided (functions which you hate) and then you would be complaining about state governments just the same.

I am all for localization of government if that is what a given area's constituents want, but to sit here and pretend that different groupings of government are somehow inherently different just doesn't make any sense. If the federal government is a ponzi scheme, then all governments must be a ponzi scheme. At least have a consistent theory.

But really I am not that interested. Instead I would love to see you and dac argue since clearly you agree that some taxes and regulation is necessary whereas he does not.

[Honkey]

Well the book explains the magnificent differences. I respect you arent interested but at the same time recognize that your tax money doesn't go to helping anyone besides bankers. The biggest running crime in the history of the world.

[Giant Killer General]

Okay which only agrees with what I said before, that corporate interests corrupt the government. So why aren't we talking about cleaning up the corporate corruption (the real disease) rather than only talking about dismantling government for its faults (which is merely the symptom).

[Pogue]

GKG is actually talking sense.....2016 has been so full of surprises.

[Honkey]

I agree gkg. But this isn't your standard "corporation" argument... this is a fundamental issue of something that isn't even regarded as a business by the population owning and controlling the entire Fina cual system. To solve this issue would essentially be hitting reset in a lot of ways. The current fed is the 3rd incarnation and the previous 2 were eliminated for reasons mentioned. Listen to jfks speech about it... the last president that stood up against this.