Disclaimer about unwanted player being picked on my team

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 06 Mar 2013, 21:15

It has come to my attention that as a captain in this draft tourney, the rules of the tourney, setup by T.O. Paris, will most likely force me to continue picking players even when there are no more players left that I would want on my team. Unwanted players mostly means newbies / mediocre players in this context. Really though, even if there were no newbies / mediocre players, I still wouldn't want too many players on my roster. I prefer to keep lean team rosters of about 8 players (including me) so I don't have to dick around with who to sit each game all the time. This also allows me to create some consistency in who my teammates are going to be playing next to each game for team chemistry purposes.

This presents quite a conundrum for me as a captain because of course I am trying to create the best competitive experience possible for all of the members of my team. As the builder of the team, I need to make sure there is a good team chemistry with all of my team members. I do not want to waste the time of, or otherwise in any way shape or form lessen the playing experience of the other 8 members on my roster just to accommodate one or two players. The needs of the many must outweigh the needs of the few.

Unfortunately this means that the certain unwanted players on my team will not have a chance to play on another team where they may be more tolerated. Of course I feel a little bit bad about this. But the rules are forcing me into this position, and I am stuck having to take the lesser of 2 evils. The only thing I can do at this point to help alleviate the shittiness of this situation, is to just at least be open and honest about this upfront. I probably only want a roster of 8 players (including me), so if you are my 8th pick or beyond that means I probably didn't really want you on the team.

I am making this post now just to say ahead of time, that if this happens to you, I am sorry, but it has to be done. I was involuntarily put into this situation just like you are. Also, if there are any volunteers who for whatever reason don't mind this arrangement (maybe you aren't serious about actually showing up at all during the tournament), where you will most likely only play if we are short on players and can't find other proper substitutes, then by all means please let me know (privately preferably) and I will look to pick you when the time comes. I am also making this post so we can all get the "omfg you are such a dick GKG, you don't let everyone play, you aren't helping the newbs learn," etc. comments out of the way ahead of time. Thanks.

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 06 Mar 2013, 21:47

if your picking that douche-bag fagot cruniac please do not attempt to pick me. Here is my warning to prevent what you have just posted from happening/the shit that happened last tourney.
In the end its your choice and if I do end up on a team with mentioned dipshit, Ill prove you why I am better and that he is just another has-been.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Mar 2013, 03:07

Why don't we just choose the number of teams so that each team ends up with 8 players...? Obviously the best way for everyone to get to play is to have more teams.

limp · Post by **limp** » 07 Mar 2013, 07:24

This is ridiculous.

This is a draft tournament, as such, you applied to form a team from an ever diminishing pool of players where the talent will quickly dissipate, doing the best you can with what is offered.

If you do not agree with this system, don't captain. You are in effect stating that you just want to form a normal team like this is MWC. It is not.

You will have to choose people you do not want. That is what you signed up for.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Mar 2013, 07:32

i say this because the post about not wanting people on your team
etc

THIS IS A DRAFT TOURNAMENT
thats the point
you told me the point of a draft tournament was 'good competitive games'

you draft the best team you can with the options you have
you don't just stop when you don't like who is left
thats called making a normal team for mwc

every team will be enforced by the rules to use one of their drafted players on a roster before a substitute can play.
Rules are in place so that players rights can be respected when other players are trying to abuse them.

@PunkUsers - this is likely, 8 teams would be really interesting.

cremisi · Post by **cremisi** » 07 Mar 2013, 12:47

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 07 Mar 2013, 13:32

c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ · 07 Mar 2013, 13:47

Egotism is closely related to "loving one's self" or narcissism - indeed some would say “by egotism we may envisage a kind of socialized narcissism”. Egotists have a strong tendency to talk about themselves in a self-promoting fashion, and they may well be arrogant and boastful with a grandiose sense of their own importance. Their inability to recognise the accomplishments of others leaves them profoundly self-promoting; while sensitivity to criticism may lead on the egotist's part to narcissistic rage at a sense of insult.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 07 Mar 2013, 16:19

keep them coming guys, let's get them all out of the way now.

no problem with forming a team via draft, love it. I change my tournament teams often because I want to play with different players. However forcing to take players i didn't want to choose is something completely different in my eyes (just look at me being forced to pick Drunken from the last draft tournament as a prime example). Are the pro sports teams forced to take players in the pro sports drafts? I actually don't know the answer to that, but I doubt it. disagree if you want, i don't care. I am not going to ruin the playing experience for myself and a bunch of players over it as I already stated. I barely want to login to play usually as it is unless I am really bored, and I know others feel the same. you aren't going to force me to play a game in a manner that i do not find enjoyable. if anyone has a problem with this, you can suck my left nut and then either remove me as a captain or grab yourself a bunch of straws and suck it the fuck up. If as a captain I am going to organize things to help contribute to enjoyable games for others to play, this is how I am going to run it. I am giving you all the courtesy of knowing ahead of time because I know exactly how touchy this is for some of you. take it or leave it. you would be a fool to remove me as a captain though.

btw if there were only 8 players on my roster, even with some mediocre players, I would find this acceptable. It isn't as desirable still, but whatever. It is more about the not wanting to sit players part. Obviously I know how to mitigate the risks of mediocre players as much as possible by giving them proper roles, and if every team has the same problem then its fair. However, I do not want to be put in the position of sitting good players to give bad ones play time, or even trying to rotate out bad players constantly. Bottomline is I do not want to be a part of an oversized team roster in any kind of team tournament, and I especially do not want to be responsible for organizing one.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 07 Mar 2013, 17:01

GiantKillerGen wrote:However, I do not want to be put in the position of sitting good players to give bad ones play time, or even trying to rotate out bad players constantly.

The rest of the stuff aside, I think this is a valid point. Even in a draft tourney we don't necessarily want caps to have to choose between trying to win and being "fair". I think to that end it's worthwhile to size the teams such that most/all players get to play each game, even if given minor roles by their captains. Seems par and GKG agree so I don't really see a downside unless we're concerned that no one is going to show up or something. Still, in a draft tourney you imagine that syndrome to be a bit more balanced between teams than in MWC anyways.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 07 Mar 2013, 19:09

You don't have to be put in the position of sitting good players so lesser skilled players can play. Those "good" players are just as responsible as you are, the mantle of team responsibility is shared and not just held by a captain. The first set of matches will be qualifying rounds anyway, i.e. they won't affect your elimination. I could see good players less inclined to sit themselves for lesser skilled players, and those lesser skilled players understanding that the team needs to be as strong as possible, during elimination. Molding team chemistry, with a sense of unity, can produce results of less bickering, hurt feelings and acceptance.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 07 Mar 2013, 19:10

If your only issue is not wanting to rotate players then that shouldn't be a problem with there being 8 teams now. If you don't want a certain player on your team that you think will ruin the chemistry of your team just don't pick him, pretty simple.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 07 Mar 2013, 19:30

Should make it 8v8 with a roster cap of 9... one player generally wont ahow and that pretty much solves the problem... other than the fact that 8v8 sucks.

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 07 Mar 2013, 19:57

Perhaps all the people who weren't picked after 8 rounds should just be lumped into their own separate teams.
That way they all get playing time, and won't be dragging down better players.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » 07 Mar 2013, 20:50

Myrk wrote:Perhaps all the people who weren't picked after 8 rounds should just be lumped into their own separate teams.
That way they all get playing time, and won't be dragging down better players.

Who will lead this glorious rabble squad?

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 07 Mar 2013, 21:33

adrenaline wrote:Should make it 8v8 with a roster cap of 9... one player generally wont ahow and that pretty much solves the problem... other than the fact that 8v8 sucks.

Is that the rule, that if 8 for each team show, it's 8v8? Fuck that noise.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 08 Mar 2013, 00:16

Not sure whether this or the no-duds idea is worse.

NewMutator · Post by **NewMutator** » 08 Mar 2013, 00:33

Kickball has been 8v8 the past few weeks and it's been fun. I'm not sure what's so bad about it even theoretically?

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 08 Mar 2013, 01:01

8v8 in the game is fine, actually it should have been 8v8 for a long time now for tourney games.
Basically saying that if you got more than 8 people then anybody else on your team wont ever get to play if those first 8 show up is uhhh.
Understand the logic but is a tad against the spirit of the tournament structure.
Also, dudes like funky,raven blah blah etc etc did fine in previous draft tournament. Obviously not at tirri level or such but well yeah anyway.
I guess if it works out that theres enough captains or whatever that teams only end up with having 8-9 players each then it won't be an issue .

par73 · Post by **par73** » 08 Mar 2013, 01:15

8v8 is fair but if a neutral host need be provided the games must go to 7v7

Dead Reckoning · Post by **Dead Reckoning** » 08 Mar 2013, 02:53

Jesus but you are making a big thing out of a tournament thats supposed to be fun, all over a computer game thats twenty years old.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Mar 2013, 05:57

not making a big deal out of anything, just telling everyone how I am going to play the game in the manner which is fun for me, and others.

SeekerAntiVegan · Post by **SeekerAntiVegan** » 08 Mar 2013, 06:06

limp wrote:This is ridiculous.

This is a draft tournament, as such, you applied to form a team from an ever diminishing pool of players where the talent will quickly dissipate, doing the best you can with what is offered.

If you do not agree with this system, don't captain. You are in effect stating that you just want to form a normal team like this is MWC. It is not.

You will have to choose people you do not want. That is what you signed up for.

This is the Limp we all know and love. Where have you been the past few years?

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 08 Mar 2013, 07:08

par73 wrote:8v8 is fair but if a neutral host need be provided the games must go to 7v7

Seems like neutral host should be less necessary in a draft tourney. That's mostly an issue with geographically centralized teams.

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 08 Mar 2013, 07:13

thisforumsucks wrote:Who will lead this glorious rabble squad?

Drunken Irishman could cap them, or they could just go random. Same difference.

noblesteed · Post by **noblesteed** » 08 Mar 2013, 07:45

This is ridiculous GKG you play with the tools given to you. THe very idea of a draft tournament the very idea of giving someone a chance who is not normally given a chance.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Mar 2013, 09:26

great, then give me 7 "tools", im not taking anymore. as previously said numerous times, this is more about clusterfucking the teams with oversized rosters.

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 08 Mar 2013, 10:27

punkUser wrote:
par73 wrote:8v8 is fair but if a neutral host need be provided the games must go to 7v7
Seems like neutral host should be less necessary in a draft tourney. That's mostly an issue with geographically centralized teams.

I haven't given a fuck about a neutral host for many years as long as the host isn't a europe host or a terrible host(in which case everybody will want a different host anyway).

drunken_deer · Post by **drunken_deer** » 08 Mar 2013, 12:29

Myrk wrote:
thisforumsucks wrote:Who will lead this glorious rabble squad?
Drunken Irishman could cap them, or they could just go random. Same difference.

I could cap them and I wouldn't care, either way you will be on thrall flag duty when I am capping you.

Myrk · Post by **Myrk** » 08 Mar 2013, 18:07

Good luck with that since unlike you I never get picked last.

Chohan · Post by **Chohan** » 08 Mar 2013, 18:25

punkUser wrote:
par73 wrote:8v8 is fair but if a neutral host need be provided the games must go to 7v7
Seems like neutral host should be less necessary in a draft tourney. That's mostly an issue with geographically centralized teams.

all hosts should be American, yuropoor's can deal with it.

Ratking · Post by **Ratking** » 08 Mar 2013, 18:35

Part of being a captain is having to deal with these types of issues. I would love to cut out all the bs and just do what gkg is suggesting, but that's never been my way. I would rather lead a good faithed effort than focus everything on winning.

Off the high horse

Cultivate some patience

Have fun winning!

dac · Post by **dac** » 08 Mar 2013, 20:11

rat you have the same issue here as gkg.

assumption: my way is right, your way is wrong.

neither is correct, your way is your way and his way is his. there's no right or wrong way, there's just a TO who can decide on what rules will be followed for the tourney.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Mar 2013, 20:57

I am picking 7 players then forfeiting the rest of my picks to the other captains. The remaining players can either be added to my team or not, I don't care. I already said what I will be doing with them. It is really as simple as that.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 08 Mar 2013, 21:10

Why the fuck are you even captaining if you insist on being a douchebag? are you so desperate to win a tourney with nearly zero prestige that you'd fuck over lesser players... possibly discouraging them to ever sign up for a tourney again? man the fuck up, dude. oh no... you have to decide who sits a few times during a match. you are so hard done by. boo fucking hoo.

i propose a solution: oust gkg as captain and give the position to someone less inclined toward faggotry.

Asmodian · Post by **Asmodian** » 08 Mar 2013, 21:11

GiantKillerGen wrote:I am picking 7 players then forfeiting the rest of my picks to the other captains. The remaining players can either be added to my team or not, I don't care. I already said what I will be doing with them. It is really as simple as that.

You realize that if there is going to be 8 teams like Paris said than there is only going to be about 8 people per team. The chances that you have your 7 first picks show every week is very low.

You are making an issue out of nothing, unless the # of teams are reduced.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 08 Mar 2013, 21:13

Fuck off asmo, i'm trying to start a riot.

limp · Post by **limp** » 08 Mar 2013, 21:20

For an ex-marine, you sure are a pussy.

Drop out of being a captain, if it's so hard to sit one nameless newbie in front of another.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 08 Mar 2013, 21:32

yawn.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 08 Mar 2013, 21:54

How bout we 1v1 for it. You win, you captain as you see fit. I win, you captain like a decent human being. First to 5, win by 2, yada yada. Either way, we get a decent duel out of the deal.

Giant Killer General · Post by **Giant Killer General** » 09 Mar 2013, 04:27

I am already going to captain however I want as it stands right now, so I hardly consider that a wager. Put something meaningful on the line for yourself and then sure.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 09 Mar 2013, 04:34

I'll responf to this later when i am reasonavly sober

Flatline · Post by **Flatline** » 09 Mar 2013, 13:36