Still nothing being done to improve this server

Lizard King · Post by **Lizard King** » 27 Jan 2014, 16:20

I come back from a hiatus and all I see is punkuser still making moronic excuses for his laziness and getting nothing done. He can have the entire community say they want something that would improve myth's status, such as a ranking system, yet is somehow contrary to the idea. It's stupid to the point where the only realistic explanation is that he's too lazy or simply incapable. Neither would surprise me since he's demonstrated both from the inception of GoS.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 27 Jan 2014, 16:34

looks like the support and push for a meta-server ranking system is in full gear, if only our king will hear our demands and pleas.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 16:38

Lizard King wrote:the only realistic explanation is that he's too lazy or simply incapable. Neither would surprise me since he's demonstrated both from the inception of GoS.

Apparently you are FAR lazier and less competent than punkuser. How many Myth servers have you built and maintained in your spare time, for free? Zero? Wow, you are lazy and incompetent.

How about you program a ranking system, institute anti-cheating and policing code and protocols, then demo to all of us how awesome your system works? Once punkuser sees a demo of how great your programming skillz are, maybe he'll incorporate your work into GoS. And then you can waste all your time handling the people bitching about how it's mis-ranked them, how so-and-so is cheating, why their icon isn't a pleasing shape to them, why your ranking brackets are all wrong, etc.

With an attitude like yours, if I were punkuser, I wouldn't even let you play on my server. Lucky for you he's a nicer person than I am. Or you are.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 16:39

par73 wrote:looks like the support and push for a meta-server ranking system is in full gear, if only our king will hear our demands and pleas.

If I were punkuser, "support" like that would *guarantee* I wouldn't implement ranking. Look at the quality of people that will be bitching about every little perceived problem in the ranking system. Who needs to waste their spare time on crap like that?

par73 · Post by **par73** » 27 Jan 2014, 17:30

bitching about every little perceived problem in the ranking system?
there is no ranking system, for starters.
that's the perceived problem

wwo · Post by **wwo** » 27 Jan 2014, 17:31

@jason

See, that's what a community doesn't need. People will always voice displeasure. The only genuinely destructive attitude is expecting gratitude. If PunkUser, like PPE, wants to do this as a hobby: great. Some will thank him, some will ignore him, some will curse him. But to expect, much less demand, even appreciation is just evidence of far less noble intentions than altruism, nevermind utter inexperience when dealing with large or diverse communities. You might have the moral high ground, but chiding others just makes you look like a putz and really just invites more attacks. You're also making PunkUser look even weaker.

This tiny community is heavily weighted towards assholes and losers. I'm pretty certain a sycophant faction isn't necessary.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 17:54

wwo wrote:I'm pretty certain a sycophant faction isn't necessary.

I have no idea what PunkUser expects. I am only speaking for myself in all this. I assume he would appreciate some appreciation, which is the appropriate response when someone gives you something you value, for free. It's a sad commentary on the quality of some people that what they give is the opposite. But yes, I know there are plenty of low quality people out there.

I dislike watching trolling kids bitch at people of far higher quality (PunkUser) than they. I'm going to express that. If you think chiding trolling kids makes me look like a putz...whatever. I think people who stand by and say nothing are tacitly encouraging an atmosphere full of trolling asshole kids. And could eventually be discouraging to people like PunkUser, PM devs, etc. Yes, it's the web, full of assholes, expect to be attacked for doing good things. And yet, get enough of that, and you'll get sick of it and stop putting effort into some things. Like spending money on hosting and programming for assholes in your spare time.

>"You're also making PunkUser look even weaker."

Thinking it makes someone look weak is a wholly personal opinion based on the perspective of the people and their own skewed perceptions and values. Dumb too, because clearly PunkUser has ALL the power. He can ban anyone, from forum or server. He can take down the forums or server permanently. To read weakness into anything he does is dumb. The fact that he doesn't exercise that power, people should read magnaminity into that. If PunkUser says nothing, I'd be more likely to think...he thinks it's all a waste of time to respond and beneath him. Or that he's about to say f- it all, I'm sick of this, and shutdown the server. But weakness? A dumb reading of the situation. Yes, I know, some will, because trolling kids are dumb.

So in your dictionary, appreciating when you're given something for free, and not wanting to tacitly encourage an atmosphere of trolling asshole kids = sycophant? Interesting dictionary you have there. Do you think no one should ever say anything positive?

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 27 Jan 2014, 18:04

wwo wrote:But to expect, much less demand, even appreciation is just evidence of far less noble intentions than altruism, nevermind utter inexperience when dealing with large or diverse communities.

Let's be clear, I don't expect or demand anything in terms of attitudes. My comment in the other thread was more in the vein of "if you want a response, asking nicely never hurts". That's just basic human decency and while I certainly don't require it, don't expect me to waste my time on posts like LKs.

That said, while I appreciate the sentiment jason, wwo is right in that it's not going to change anyone's attitudes. There are folks who are just going to bitch no matter what and LK is just going to keep claiming that nothing has been done despite... all the stuff that has been done. It's a losing discussion with moving goal-posts. Ultimately there are better uses of time than feeding trolls.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 18:18

punkUser wrote:That said, while I appreciate the sentiment jason, wwo is right in that it's not going to change anyone's attitudes. There are folks who are just going to bitch no matter what and LK is just going to keep claiming that nothing has been done despite... all the stuff that has been done. It's a losing discussion with moving goal-posts. Ultimately there are better uses of time than feeding trolls.

LOL, well, you know, sometimes my idealism will get the better of me

To think that if enough people tell a trolling asshole kid that he's being an asshole, that perhaps one day a little bit of reality will sink into him. I know, kind of a foolish waste of time on the Web. But what's the saying? "It takes a village to raise a trolling ass"

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 27 Jan 2014, 18:31

jason_ac wrote: LOL, well, you know, sometimes my idealism will get the better of me

Yeah, I used to think that way once

Anyways you can do what you like, I just don't like seeing you waste your time on some of these guys.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 18:43

punkUser wrote:Yeah, I used to think that way once Anyways you can do what you like, I just don't like seeing you waste your time on some of these guys.

Clearly I haven't been spending much time in gaming forums lately, if I'll fall for the troll trap

Been a while since I've done much game forum-ing. Of course, few games are worth it. The last one I spent a LOT of time on was Warhawk PS3.

Professional Killer · Post by **Professional Killer** » 27 Jan 2014, 18:45

Hello.

I tried to post in other thread but It were locked regarding ranked.
I read that ppl dont think that ranked have anything to say regarding ppl playing here. thats wrong though in my opinion.
I am one of them who enjoy the competition that comes from following stats etc and I see I play far less now then I used to when the rank system was up.
But I can say I would come back and play much more if it were in place and up and running. I miss the rankingsystem.

No, this is not a hate PunkUser post in anyway I wanted to chip in my thoughts.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 18:51

Professional Killer wrote:I read that ppl dont think that ranked have anything to say regarding ppl playing here.

There's a lot of sentiment that a well-functioning ranking system would be a nice addition. It's just that it's a lot of work, for a [currently] small community. And apparently no one credible and qualified has volunteered to program it. So it's a "someday" thing for the people that could do it, if/when they get time for it. Donate them a bunch of money. Maybe they'll find the time then

Professional Killer · Post by **Professional Killer** » 27 Jan 2014, 19:19

jason_ac wrote:
Professional Killer wrote:I read that ppl dont think that ranked have anything to say regarding ppl playing here.
There's a lot of sentiment that a well-functioning ranking system would be a nice addition. It's just that it's a lot of work, for a [currently] small community. And apparently no one credible and qualified has volunteered to program it. So it's a "someday" thing for the people that could do it, if/when they get time for it. Donate them a bunch of money. Maybe they'll find the time then

Ok, I'll be the first to point out I have no clue regarding how to program this at all, but:

The ranking system that was on Mnet, though it's "cheatable" cant the code for that be implemented here? That way atleast some kind of rankingsystem are up until the improved one will come in time?
That way atleast games/win/losses/ratioes etc will count and show in lobby.

I think it would be very healthy for the community.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 19:32

Professional Killer wrote:The ranking system that was on Mnet, though it's "cheatable" cant the code for that be implemented here? That way atleast some kind of rankingsystem are up until the improved one will come in time?

You'd have to ask PunkUser & MNet, will MNet share it, does that help PunkUser much, or not. A question though...is a system worth it if it's too easily cheated? Were people happy enough with MNet's? Did it drive people into ranked rooms, or out of them? Did it result in new people getting more abused for rank cannon fodder (bad for growing Myth)?

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 27 Jan 2014, 19:47

Professional Killer wrote: That way atleast games/win/losses/ratioes etc will count and show in lobby.

If this is all people want that's pretty easy for me to do! That's not "ranking" per se, that's just showing stats similar to the ones that are on the web site in the game. Totally doable. The time consuming part is if people want all the ladder stuff.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 27 Jan 2014, 19:53

Professional Killer wrote:That way atleast games/win/losses/ratioes etc will count and show

You know that info is already on the web, right?
http://gateofstorms.net/users

par73 · Post by **par73** » 27 Jan 2014, 23:49

jason_ac wrote:
Professional Killer wrote:That way atleast games/win/losses/ratioes etc will count and show
You know that info is already on the web, right?
http://gateofstorms.net/users

i think PK means on the server, when you check player quotes

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 28 Jan 2014, 13:30

I can sum up everything Jason says in the words of Edulus:

"This is all wonderful."

par73 · Post by **par73** » 28 Jan 2014, 16:30

punkUser wrote:
Professional Killer wrote: That way atleast games/win/losses/ratioes etc will count and show in lobby.
If this is all people want that's pretty easy for me to do! That's not "ranking" per se, that's just showing stats similar to the ones that are on the web site in the game. Totally doable. The time consuming part is if people want all the ladder stuff.

ladder tournaments have never worked for m2 community unless done manually in the forums, i don't think you should bother with the 'ladder stuff' and instead put up a simple ranking system.

wouldn't a ladder be a separate ranking system anyway?

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 28 Jan 2014, 22:53

par73 wrote: wouldn't a ladder be a separate ranking system anyway?

No, a system with "points/ratings" and such where you go up and down based on the rating of your opponent and who wins is a ladder/ranking system. That's a bunch of work.

If you just want stats like wins:losses and dmg ratios in the game, that's pretty easy for me to do. I've been assuming to date that people were more interested in a full ranking system (a la. Elo or similar).

par73 · Post by **par73** » 29 Jan 2014, 02:27

are you talking about cumulative wins:loss and dmg ratios in the lobby? if that's easy for you to do, please do it !

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 29 Jan 2014, 04:44

par73 wrote:are you talking about cumulative wins:loss and dmg ratios in the lobby? if that's easy for you to do, please do it !

Just bear in mind, whatever you measure, that's what you will get. Instead of rank-whoring behavior, you'll get stat-whoring behavior.

If you show just win/loss, then some people will do anything to inflate that stat. Cheat. Beat on newbies. Whatever.

If you show dmg ratio, some will do anything to inflate that stat. Ignore the game objective, just massacre whoever is near them. Cheat. Beat on newbies. etc.

Raw stats don't take into account who you were playing against, or how many, or how you played. Which, ideally, an actual rating system tries to take that kind of stuff into account.

For people that want to opt-out of the stat-whoring community (or being abused by stat whores), just like there are [were] unranked rooms, perhaps there should be un-tracked/un-stat-ed rooms? Newbies might like that

Or, ideally, let a host config a game as being un-stat-ed or not (with a dot command or UI change). Then everyone can congregate in 1 room, but find the kind of game they want (or beg the host to change it).

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 29 Jan 2014, 07:58

par73 wrote:are you talking about cumulative wins:loss and dmg ratios in the lobby? if that's easy for you to do, please do it !

Ok sounds good I'll try and get this in soon. Do you want stats over all games a user has played or do you want "ranked" rooms back for the purpose of affecting those stats?

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 29 Jan 2014, 08:03

jason_ac wrote: Just bear in mind, whatever you measure, that's what you will get. Instead of rank-whoring behavior, you'll get stat-whoring behavior.

Sure, but I buy the argument that for folks who just want to have something to see in Myth that it's better than nothing. Given that it's pretty easy for me to throw together it seems worth doing in the meantime. Short term we could even have some simply icons in the ranked room based on just the raw stats in some way that encourages playing... like #wins or something. Obviously can be abused easily but hell, maybe it'll give folks a bit of fun for a while, and as I said, it's a lot easier than a full ranking system/ladder.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 29 Jan 2014, 16:47

punkUser wrote:Do you want stats over all games a user has played or do you want "ranked" rooms back for the purpose of affecting those stats?

As I wrote in my post "to" par, I'd like to see ranked/unranked rooms. Or, even better, let a host decide if a game is ranked, or not. Then our small community (& any newbies) can all stay in 1 room, and people can decide "well, I want ranked, but I've been waiting forever, guess I'll go join that unranked game". And vice versa.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 29 Jan 2014, 17:51

jason_ac wrote: Or, even better, let a host decide if a game is ranked, or not.

Not going to happen. Not only would it require client changes but it would be confusing without appropriate UI whether a game was ranked or not. The game is set up for different rooms and that's the way to separate it if desired.

jason_ac · Post by **jason_ac** » 29 Jan 2014, 18:49

punkUser wrote:Not only would it require client changes but it would be confusing without appropriate UI whether a game was ranked or not.

A dot command couldn't do it? But yes, UI is an issue. Well perhaps something for Myth 1.9. With the community small, splitting it between rooms doesn't seem awesome.

punkUser · Post by **punkUser** » 29 Jan 2014, 19:58

jason_ac wrote: With the community small, splitting it between rooms doesn't seem awesome.

It's two clicks to switch rooms... and if people (by construction here) don't want to play in the same games anyways it's not really that relevant.

Host options that don't make sense in pure TCP/IP games are a bad direction given how Myth is designed. Any metaserver metadata (heh) needs to come from context (users/rooms/etc).

par73 · Post by **par73** » 29 Jan 2014, 21:45

jason_ac wrote:
par73 wrote:are you talking about cumulative wins:loss and dmg ratios in the lobby? if that's easy for you to do, please do it !
Just bear in mind, whatever you measure, that's what you will get. Instead of rank-whoring behavior, you'll get stat-whoring behavior.

If you show just win/loss, then some people will do anything to inflate that stat. Cheat. Beat on newbies. Whatever.

If you show dmg ratio, some will do anything to inflate that stat. Ignore the game objective, just massacre whoever is near them. Cheat. Beat on newbies. etc.

i am simply talking about a function that worked for bungie.net playmyth.net and marius.net where you could check a players quotes and see their statistics (while they were also displayed online, which gos.net already does).

rank-whoring behavior, stat-whoring behavior... in regards to that obviousness, that has always been apart of myth, people probably still do it anyway.

rawr · Post by **rawr** » 30 Jan 2014, 00:59

I just wanna be able to fight my way to a comet ! And see my stats in game!

Chohan · Post by **Chohan** » 30 Jan 2014, 09:56

Who is this jason cock sucker and why is he posting endless page long replies

Professional Killer · Post by **Professional Killer** » 30 Jan 2014, 13:21

rawr wrote:I just wanna be able to fight my way to a comet ! And see my stats in game!

comet is mine

rawr · Post by **rawr** » 30 Jan 2014, 13:38

NO PK THE COMET IS MINEEE MWUAHAHAHAH

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 30 Jan 2014, 21:55

This is the only COMET a Mexican needs, Rawr:

Pogue · Post by **Pogue** » 31 Jan 2014, 01:29

This is the only THING a mexican needs:

rawr · Post by **rawr** » 31 Jan 2014, 02:19

adrenaline, its ok bro, ill be mad if i am a canadian too! dont worry your gonna be getting your best friend justin beiber back in a couple weeks. you will be able to spend quality time with your boyfriend than.

adrenaline · Post by **adrenaline** » 31 Jan 2014, 14:36

LOL GOOD ONE RAWR. DAMN YOU REALLY PUT MY IN MY PLACE WITH THAT ZINGER.

par73 · Post by **par73** » 31 Jan 2014, 19:51

yo if any of you are around on saturday, at 3pm EST i am hosting a show n play tournament, it will be about 10-15 games long. scoring by placement, and a point for damage. details here: http://tws14.webs.com/show-n-play-saturday

Edulus · Post by **Edulus** » 25 Mar 2014, 19:08

Praise Jambi.

BIG KROK V8 SS · Post by **BIG KROK V8 SS** » 25 Mar 2014, 21:58

adrenaline wrote:This is the only COMET a Mexican needs, Rawr:

LKLOKOKRORLOLRLOLOLOL