Map Concept looking for opinions

[SamTheButcher]

I was wondering if some of you could give me your thoughts on some map concepts. Since people were talking about 2Tm vs FFA and people have negatives about both. For example 2 Tm needing to rely heavily on your teammates to win. Which if you are stuck with shitty Players really sucks and makes some people not want to play 2 Tm. Then with FFA you have things to worry about like being doubled people not playing the gametype ect. Which is why I have always like Gimble CTF so much, when played by gentleman's rules. You dont have to worry about those things as much. Based on that I started making a series of maps about 5-6 years ago I finished 2 them but moved and just got them back out a few days or so ago and have been tweaking them to release. I wanted to see what you thought of the concept of these maps.

I am trying to address some of the issues with 2 Tm and FFA and have maps that are more focused on a straight up head to head 1v1 fight. I'll explain why these maps would be better than playing 1v1 on standard FFA maps. Here is what I mean. You play 1v1to avoid the bad teammates issue of 2 Tm or the double or hateplay issues with FFA. There are problems with playing 1v1 on standard FFA maps. Like, if you are playing Lmoth/Koth for example on a standard FFA map a lot of times it comes down to who gets the center hill first. So both Players race their units to the center. So you usually get a fight that is pretty chaotic because both Players usually start fighting from a running march position. Its not like you can actually set up and fight because you are running your units to reach the top of the hill before your opponent. So your fast units engage first then your slower units. There really isnt much of a standoff with an organized and together army. With things like Bowmen Duels ect. If you dont do that and you let the other Player have the hill you are at a huge disadvantage. Then if you you play CTF to avoid it just being "a first person to the hill fight" the size of the maps becomes an issue for a straight up head to head fight. Heres how. If your flags are at opposite sides of the map there is no real set area where the battle will take place. You dont know for sure where your opponent will go. Yes you can send scouts or go to the center hill on the map but that doesnt guarantee a head to head fight. It could happen that you send your army north on the east side of the map and your opponent send theirs south on the west side of the map. You both figure out what is going on so it becomes a race to take the other persons flag first and you never end up with your main forces fighting. You could move most of your army to your opponents flag leaving a small defense. While your opponent sent an 8 unit flank around the map to your flag. So all they have to do is keep you from contesting while their flank takes your flag. They win with no real fighting actually happening. Knowing these things a lot of times both Players kinda camp and just send a small force out. We all know these things and they are things I dont like much about doing 1v1s on standard FFA maps. I like straight up head to head fights best. Win or lose.

The concept of the maps is that they are designed to be 1v1 (maybe 2v2) straight up head to head fights. You dont have to rely on teammates like what happens in 2Tm or doubling etc on FFA. You get to pit your fighting skills vs your opponents. They are smaller maps (a little bigger than the individual battle ground areas on Gimble CTF). They are all set in different "Arenas" I have the 2 right now with Gimble and Gyre unit sets (light/dark). There isnt a center hill that if someone takes they are almost guaranteed victory. The maps arent so big that you and your opponent can pass each other on opposite sides of the map without your main forces ever engaging. The maps size and terrain are designed to pretty much force a head to head fight. You can flank and be far enough away your opponent cant see your flank, but your not likely to be able to circle far enough around to take their CTF flag without ever really fighting. Lmoth/Koth are like normal except there is no center hill and both Players approach the center on equal terrain and elevations (that is walking straight to the center from your start position). There are hills and varied terrain but both teams have similar hills ect. Both maps look like old man made "Arena" fighting grounds. Thats the concept. I have 2 pretty much done but a few tweaks. One I will release in the next few days. If people like this concept I'll make more. Opinions?

Another map concept that expands on that idea is to have a map that is like a mini 1v1 tourney. They would be designed best for either 2,4,8,12 or 16 Players. For example it it were and 8 Player map. You would have the main map which would be fairly large. It would be divided into 7 separated "Arena" like "battle grounds". The first round 4 1v1's would happen in 4 of the "battle grounds". The winners of each of those would be teleported into 2 other separated "battle grounds". The 2 winners of those would be teleported into the last "battle ground". To end up with 1 winner. You get to make each fight head to head with no interference from other Players like what happens a lot in FFA. You dont have to rely on teammates like what happens in 2Tm. You get to pit your fighting skills vs your opponents. There could be a few variations. Like you could have to use the same army the entire game so you have to try to conserve your units for later fights to maybe have an advantage over an opponents. I think better though would be that after each fight your original army would be replenished so that you keep you Vets but units lost would be replaced for the next fight. There would need to be some sort of a time limit on how long the individual fights could take so that you werent waiting forever for 2 campers to finish. You could have a crowd that after a certain period of time or lack of action would get impatient and start lobbing bombs, puss, fire arrows ect at the Players to encourage them to fight. (I have this on my Dog Fights map) Anyway I think it would be a cool concept and both ideas I think would be great maps to focus heavily on straight up fighting skill. Opinions?

If anyone would like to work on this mini 1v1 tourney map idea with me let me know. Or if anyone wants to make some of the 1v1 "Arena" maps please do. We could put a few/bunch into one Plugin. I like the idea and I know there are better map makers than I that could make some really cool "Arenas".

[adrenaline]

My opinion is that if you want people to read your posts, you should make them a lot shorter.

[SamTheButcher]

I'm not sure how I could do that and still get my ideas across. Your right though to many people with A.D.D these days.

[adrenaline]

You just need to be more concise and break your ramblings up into paragraphs.

[Zak]

Secret NC 1v1 plugin:

http://www.freefilehosting.net/deathpackbeta21

play with deathmatch

[SamTheButcher]

Edited version with less rambling and more concise.

Concept is small 1v1 maps set in "Arenas". Designed to focus more on straight up head to head fighting. Addresses some issues with playing 1v1 on standard FFA maps.

Size of the maps are about the size of the KG fighting area (area inside the water) I have 2 basically finished they just need some minor tweaking.

Some issues it addresses with playing 1v1 on standard FFA maps.
1) No center hill for it to just become a scramble to be the first to take the hill and basically win at that point like with Lmoth/Koth. You can actually start fighting from formation with all of your units instead of starting the fight with your units spread out with your fast units in front as you raced to be first to the hill.
2) The smaller size eliminates the issue of playing CTF, Terries ect on standard FFA maps of sometimes the main forces never actually fight. Like what can happen with CTF when Players move their armies to their enemies flag on opposite sides of the map. Or the situations like when Player A is the aggressor and moves most of their units to Player B's flag. While Player B has sent a small flank all the way around the map to Players A flag and Player A is too far away to do anything so Player B takes it with out there ever being a real fight.

(There is room enough for concealed flanks but not enough that you could send a flank to your opponents flag and your opponent end up having their main army too far away to do anything about it.)

3) Camping. Unless you want to fight with your back against the wall your not going to camp.

Like I said they are/would be designed to pretty much force Players to fight head to head to win. I think these would be great for Players to compete with a focus mainly on fighting skill alone. Hopefully if people like this idea better map makers than myself will make some more "Arena" style maps.

The 2nd concept and I havent made this yet is based on the "Arena" maps but they would be like a mini 1v1 Tourney. Here is how they would work based on an 8 start map.

Main map is divided into 7 separated "arenas". You cant leave the "arena" you are in. So there is no doubling or outside interference.
It starts with 8 Players randomly paired for 1v1's in 4 of the "arenas".
The 4 winners of those are teleported and paired up to fight in 2 new "arenas"
The 2 winners of those are teleported to fight in the last "arena" to have 1 winner.

Some possible issues to address.

1) Players camping or just taking to long to finish their fight.

Ways to address that would be.
A) A time limit with the Player with the highest % would move on.
B) An audience of uncontrollable units that are watching get impatient and start lobbing bombs, puss, fire arrows at the Players to get them to fight. I have and audience on my "Dog Fights" map that does this and its pretty cool.

2) Do players get replacement units after each fight? This could be set up as an option. Replacements or no replacements would both have their own dynamics. I would rather have replacements with Vet units moving on and only units lost replaced after each fight. Keeping Vets would be a bit of a bonus for doing good in previous fights but some people may complain that someone else had an easier fight previously so they have more Vets and its not fair. So replacing the entire force may be optional.

Now that I have this a little easier and shorter to read can I get some opinions on these concepts? Making maps take a long time and to put all that effort into something people wont play sucks. So I would like to know what people think about this before I finish any more than the 2 I have. If some people do like it and would like to make more "Arenas" please do and we could put together a Plugin with a bunch in it. If anyone likes the idea of the mini 1v1 Tourney style map and would like to work on it with me let me know.

[SamTheButcher]

Here is a link to the first "Arena" 1V1 map. It has Light/Dark variants with Gimble/Gyre units. http://thebutchersmaps.weebly.com/#
Opinions?