NBA SPORTS TALK 1o1

[Asmodian]

Asmo you need to stop drinking the ESPN morality play kool aid and realize Cousins is the best center in the NBA this year. Don't tell the children, but being a nice or mature person has nothing to do being good at basketball.

Cousins has good basketball skills, but he plays out of control too often.

Being mature is very important when you are suppose to be the leader of the team. There is no way The Kings will break into the playoffs in the Western Conference with Cousins as the leader of a team. The Kings will either need to attract another star player that is leader or trade Cousins away if they ever want to sniff the playoffs again.


Gasol > Howard > Noah > Cousins That's how I would rate the centers in the NBA; the center position is definitely the worst by a wide margin right now though.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

He is 7 foot tall crusher and hit a backwards spinning layup (a kobe move) against the clippers today (see at 1:15)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii7r_UzkASw[/youtube]

Dude is 24 and you want him to be a "leader" to a bunch of scrubs? How about he just puts team on back.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

this is quite a long thread about idiots.

[par73]

ah fuck cousins heating up look like the kings might take an 8th seed this year

[Chohan]

Kings don't have enough good players to make the playoffs Rudy Gay is just a volume chucker that isn't reliable enough over a long stretch. King's best chance to make the playoffs would be trying to trade for Rondo (probably should've did it before the draft).

The west playoff teams will probably be (not in seed order).

Spurs
Thunder
Grizzles
Mavericks
Rockets
Warriors
Suns
Clippers

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Kings are def a longshot for playoffs though they've been tearing it up, would be cool if Cousins just willed them in Iverson style.

How dare you leave Blazers off that list.

[Chohan]

Blazers left themselves off the list, for the most part they only made the playoffs last year because they had that super hot start that was like 20-4 something like that. All of the top half of the west got stronger and made good moves. Meanwhile the Blazers are paying Nicolas Batum and Wesley Matthews a combined $20 million a year. I love Alridge as a player and think he is easily the 2nd best PF in the league behind Love, I just don't think he is good enough to carry a team with almost 0 bench in the west.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

They didnt get off to a "hot start" they had an easy schedule to start and a hard schedule during to finish. Plus Aldridge was out for a few weeks towards the end with a groin injury. Nic and Wes totally deserve $20 between them, I don't see the problem there, Wes shut Harden the "#1 shooting guard" down in that playoff series & Nic is basically Kawhi Leonard but a better passer. Yea they lost to the spurs pretty badly but no worse than the Heat did so... Also you didn't mention Mr. Lillard?

Yes the bench sucks, though Kaman has looked rejuvenated since coming to Portland & getting his own reality show. I do also like Will Barton and wish they would play him more.

Let's see how they do against the Cavs tonight

The real standings will look like this come playoff time

Bestern Conference:
1. Warriors!
2. Clippers
3. Spurs (they'll still win the championship though)
4. Mavericks
5. Blazers
6. Grizzlies
7. Rockets
8. Thunder (you realize both Durant and Westbrook are injured right?) barely over the Kings!

Leastern Conference:
1. Bulls
2. Cavs
3. Wizards
4. Raptors
5. Hawks
6. Nets
7. Hornets
8. Knicks

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

http://www.nba.com/games/20141104/CLEPOR/gameinfo.html

[Chohan]

Worked out well for me made money off the game took Portland and took Houston as well to win with spreads. Didn't think cleveland would lose by that much but I figured they would start off like 5-4 or 6-5 until they get used to playing together and get going.

[Asmodian]

They didnt get off to a "hot start" they had an easy schedule to start and a hard schedule during to finish. Plus Aldridge was out for a few weeks towards the end with a groin injury. Nic and Wes totally deserve $20 between them, I don't see the problem there, Wes shut Harden the "#1 shooting guard" down in that playoff series & Nic is basically Kawhi Leonard but a better passer. Yea they lost to the spurs pretty badly but no worse than the Heat did so... Also you didn't mention Mr. Lillard?

Yes the bench sucks, though Kaman has looked rejuvenated since coming to Portland & getting his own reality show. I do also like Will Barton and wish they would play him more.

Let's see how they do against the Cavs tonight

The real standings will look like this come playoff time

Bestern Conference:
1. Warriors!
2. Clippers
3. Spurs (they'll still win the championship though)
4. Mavericks
5. Blazers
6. Grizzlies
7. Rockets
8. Thunder (you realize both Durant and Westbrook are injured right?) barely over the Kings!

Leastern Conference:
1. Bulls
2. Cavs
3. Wizards
4. Raptors
5. Hawks
6. Nets
7. Hornets
8. Knicks

Houston is a team built to do well in the regular season. They will finish in the top four for sure, but I don't expect them to do much in the playoffs. The East looks about right other than leaving out Miami. Miami will get the 4-5 seed and the Hornets or Hawks will miss the playoffs.

It will be interesting to see which team out of Sacramento, New Orleans and Phoenix will get the closest to making the playoffs out west. I expect all 3 of those teams to have a similar record.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Haha yea I forgot about Miami, I'd replace the Hornets w/ Heat at 7.

[par73]

wow totally underestimating the hornets, also claiming houston not doing much in the playoffs to be a surprise is dumbfounding. getting iced by damien lillard should be more than enough than a reason to expect more from the houston in the playoffs, not less.

the west
1. spurs
2. warriors
3. clippers
4. rockets
5. blazers
6. grizzles
7. mavs
8. thunder


1 bulls
2 wizards
3 cavs
4 raptors
5 Hornets
6 Heat
7 Knicks
8 Hawks

largest team payroll in the nba fails to make playoffs
money isn't everything

[Chohan]

Dwight Howard and Harden are both regular season players. Harden doesn't get all of his ticky tack flop fouls in the playoffs and he might be the worst defensive player in the NBA. Howard can't make free throws and is a hack-a-shaq liability (at least shaq could make them when they counted) and almost has had 0 playoff success for being called and considered "The best center in basketball" hell the one time he made the finals in 2009 it was Hedo Turkolu and Rashard Lewis carrying that team.


I don't see the Howard+Harden combo ever making it past the 2nd round in the playoffs in the west, unless the west is majorly shaken up in the next 1-2 years.

[par73]

harden is a regular season player(???), despite the fact he has made the playoffs every year he has been in the NBA.
I guess that's an interesting look, but more of a joke.

i never thought i'd be caught defending howard after what happened in the 2009 playoffs where he carried the abysmal orlando magic over the pierce garnett allen celtics (ok garnett was injured, didn't play, and howard ran over kendrick 'PER-king' perkins and big fuckin 'baby' davis).

the orlando magic would have had zero playoff success in the 2000s if dwight howard was never signed to their team.

i guess "0 playoff success" actually means "has not won an NBA finals" according to Crun's book, "The Ohio Caves".

you claim howard is a hack-a-shaq liability, but shaq won 5 nba finals, did he not ? didn't shaq have a few MVPs along the way?


if the mavs can bring the spurs to 7 in the first round, i think anything can happen in the west. i think any playoff team from the west could win the finals. Some teams get hot at the end of the year, that's just what happens.

the east is completely run by the bulls this year. their bench is loaded, their starters are amazing. their coach learned from some of the best. taking the ECF is contingent on the health of rose and noah who have been with the bulls franchise since they were drafted in 2007 and 2008. Aging boozer gone, Gibson in the role he has earned. It looks good for them bulls.

Wizards and raptors both have interesting and efficient squads that could be compared to the likes of the bash bros at golden state. their guards run the night.

meanwhile lebron looks like a shadow of his former self and I'm not even talking about his physique and how much weight he lost over the post season.

in regards to team rosters situation, the rockets would probably beat the cavs in the finals this year if they matched up, as the cavs are pretty much who the rockets were last year.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

par is right about Howard, crun is right about Harden. Foul calls don't come as easy in playoffs, as crun mentioned, and Harden never seems in particularly good condition, and his exaustion at the end of intense playoff games feeds into his bad defense. A player like Wes Mathews, not quite as talented but stronger and more tenacious, can basically bully him into submission. He was much more suited to the super-6th man role on the Thunder.

[par73]

time is a factor though. Did you know? Wes and James have been in the league for the same amount of time.

wes matthews is a very talented defensive guard. he's obviously not starting at the 2 for portland for his offensive capabilities. the super-6th man role is something he was great with sure, but if you remember, the thunder started the defensively talented sefoloshia. the thunder had other options available to start on offense at the time. Why have him waste his breath? this really would have been a poor choice by scott brooks to start harden at the 2 with westbrook and
a player like wes matthews is paid to neutralize opposing offensively guards, a player like harden is paid to score at his own will as often as possible. Wes played against harden for 6 games in a row and harden averaged 26, by the time game 6 came around you could consider wes matthews a specialist on how to guard James Harden.
it is interesting to think how wes matthews has started 6 consecutive years for teams while james harden has only started for three.

what houston truly lacks is a 6th man off the bench to come in and score, similar to the way harden did. Ariza is having an amazing season starting at small forward so far, if there was a better forward on the team you would see him taking that position. on the other hand, should houston truly stick harden in a non-starting spot because he showed promise excelling off the bench as a rookie and sophmore? I don't think so. the promise and talent harden displayed during his rookie contract tenure in OKC has earned him the right to be the most important iso offensive scoring weapon on pretty much every team in the NBA. besides, perhaps and of course, the LA Lakers and Kobe's 40 shots a night, or the knicks, who have melo; and of course good ol' K-D himself.

let's get back to harden though. this guy is already in MVP considerations. i guess crun is right in some ways about harden, exceot his first year in houston he averaged more free throw attempts in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. since howard has been there, that issue has flipped with more attempts on average i regular season than in playoffs. but gee we truly need not to wonder why, hack-a-shaq dwight howard came to houston as crun also stated. looks like you're wrong about that. there are probably more real fouls on harden in the playoffs than in the regular season anyway because you really want to stop that guy from scoring and heating up. Microwavable, bros

i guess harden hasn't impressed you guys enough for you to understand that in his 6th nba season he will surpass all expectations bar injury.
i guess you are setting the bar low because you want to be impressed. but i've watched harden, i watched those okc miami finals.
i watched his first year with lin, ive watched him on the olympics team and ive watched him on the world cup team.
he led the world cup team in scoring on average through 19 games on less field goal attempts than kyrie irving, klay thompson (who both averaged a full minute and a half more court time) and big man ANTHONY DAVIS who sits underneath the fucking basket.
he's the new AI without the AI attitude. the next kobe without the kobe. i watched the shot "HEARD AROUND THE NBA" lillard made on live TV that iced the houston rockets in 6 games. what happens when that shot misses and the series goes back to houston?


I don't see that 2012 OKC team making it past the LA Lakers or the SA Spurs without Harden "Coming off the bench" averaging more minutes a night than 3 of 5 starters. when this kid gets hot you can't stop him. he is the best shooting guard in the league.

defense is a huge factor when it comes to what harden needs to become a better player, but it's not a total mystery what he needs to do so chances are he's been putting forth effort to provide more pressure. He still snags 2 steals per game in the playoffs and if you're talking man to man his scoring and the two turnovers more than make up for it.

harden is the star who makes houston a factor and a threat. dwight mostly protects the rim.
milk you like to claim wes could bully harden into submission but he scored 34 the night lillard dropped that genius bomb shot which brought me back to watching the bulls on TNT.
houston will take the blazers this year in the playoffs if and when they meet. the west is a wild fucking place. harden will go to work and has only improved every year of his NBA career. ariza and t jones are spectacular. it does'nt matter what beverly does at the point because harden controls the offense (see Kobe).

it's a good year for the rockets.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Of course Harden is really good and of course he should be a starter for Houston. Obviously with Durant + Westbrook that OKC team was a special special case. I'd say Harden currently is 2nd or 3rd best SG. All I'm saying is that he is kind of lazy & out of shape for an NBA player (these two things feed into each other). This is why he looks so bad on D, also why he tends to fade at the end of games. I watched FIBA too and the slower pace + shorter games really benefited Harden. For this reason he will always have a bit more trouble with 3&D SGs that are also post-up bullies, like Wes or Klay.

Full disclosure: I hate both Harden & Howard's game. Millions of floppy foul shots + a big man with no post moves or elegance whatsoever. Howard is like the anti-Cousins (COUSINS MVP!).

Also, the argument "what if Lillard missed?" drives me nuts. What if Parsons didn't get that lucky rebound & putback right before? What if the person before missed, or the person before, or the person before? And it wasn't just a blown assignment, Lillard was really crafty with his body language, this is actually something he does quite a lot.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Wow I just noticed you called him the new A.I. That is fuckin heresy dude.

[par73]

harden will be in the mix for the scoring title for a long while.

at least you can be honest about your bias

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

I wonder if crun is starting to feel embarrassed yet.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

yikes

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YVHnz3GL9k[/youtube]

he needs to be on a better team

[Chohan]

I wonder if crun is starting to feel embarrassed yet.

Not at all the only player, playing better than LeBron currently is Anthony Davis. And that says a lot when LeBron has struggled a lot early on he's averaging almost 4 turnover's a game (most of those came in the 1st 7-8 games of the season). And as always one of the most important things in the playoffs is whoever has the best player tends to win more times than not. When LeBron went to the heat they started off like 8-9 and wade was clearly far more of a polished and championship ready player than Kyrie is at the moment. And also this team can struggle early on because, let's be serious outside of the Toronto Raptors there isn't 1 team playing good in the east. Talent alone will let the Cavs cruise into the 3rd-4th seed, and that's counting on the bulls staying healthy

[par73]

Cleveland at New York tomorrow will be a good measurement of where they are in the East. If they can't make the spread, I don't see them taking 3rd and perhaps could lose the 4 seed to Atlanta or Miami. On the other hand, A 4/5 playoff matchup between Miami and Cleveland would be most appropriate for TV ratings. Cleveland also terrible against the three so I see a probable losing record against the lights out western conference.

Back to Houston, Home of the Liger, Howard on Hiatus, Harden carrying Hard, but how about this: There's only two teams who turn the ball over more than Houston (16.4), can you guess who they are?

Here's a hint, #32 and #1.

[par73]

And as always one of the most important things in the playoffs is whoever has the best player tends to win more times than not.

This is not necessarily true at all, and determining the 'best' player is a product of factoring who wins more often the not. I'm pretty sure the most important factors in the playoffs is the better team (at that moment) happens to win more often than not.
Despite the fact that the 'best player' argument is a complete fallacy yet useful marketing ploy, you argue the best are determined through winning.

I don't see anyone on the Cleveland cavaliers who was on the Spurs last year so I'm pretty sure that in reality they are all losers; and by the 'best player wins more times than not' logic, Cleveland lacks the best players as well as winning more times than not.

2014-2015 ain't looking good for dem cavs.

[Chohan]

I don't know why I even bother sometimes but for conversations sake...

Cleveland at New York tomorrow will be a good measurement of where they are in the East. If they can't make the spread,

This just doesn't make any sense, maybe if you would've said Cleveland at Toronto (which Cleveland won) the Knicks are a measuring stick for basically the 76ers, Lakers and Celtics and that's about it. The Knicks are bad the only games they will end up winning is when Carmelo and JR Smith get lucky for enough 3's to fall. On a side note it's hilarious to see Carmelo be labeled as a 'star' and he can't even manage to carry an eastern conference team to a .500 w/l.

I don't see them taking 3rd and perhaps could lose the 4 seed to Atlanta or Miami.

Miami will be lucky to get 7th-8th seed, I would have even said possibly miss the playoffs but the Hornets somehow have regressed into a pile of crap.

Cleveland also terrible against the three so I see a probable losing record against the lights out western conference.

Cleveland is 10th in the league at defending the 3, and the east is better than the west at shooting the 3 having 6 teams in the top 10

This is not necessarily true at all, and determining the 'best' player is a product of factoring who wins more often the not. I'm pretty sure the most important factors in the playoffs is the better team (at that moment) happens to win more often than not.
Despite the fact that the 'best player' argument is a complete fallacy yet useful marketing ploy, you argue the best are determined through winning.

Notice I said "Whoever has the best player tends to win more times than not."

As for your "marketing ploy" not even sure how that even applies here at all but once again actual facts here starting from the 90's.

NBA Champs 91 - Bulls(win) vs Lakers (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 92 - Bulls(win) vs Trail Blazers (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 93 - Bulls(win) vs Suns (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 94 - Rockets(win) vs New York Knicks (Had the best player Hakeem)
NBA Champs 95 - Rockets(win) vs Magic (Had the best player Hakeem)
NBA Champs 96 - Bulls(win) vs SuperSonics (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 97 - Bulls(win) vs Jazz (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 98 - Bulls(win) vs Jazz (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 99 - Spurs(win) vs Knicks (Had the best player Duncan)
NBA Champs 00 - Lakers(win) vs Pacers (Had the best player Shaq)
NBA Champs 01 - Lakers(win) vs 76ers (Had the best player Shaq)
NBA Champs 02 - Lakers(win) vs Nets (Had the best player Shaq)
NBA Champs 03 - Spurs(win) vs Nets (Had the best player Duncan)
NBA Champs 04 - Pistons(win) vs Lakers **(Pistons did not have the best player)**
NBA Champs 05 - Spurs(win) vs Pistons (Had the best player Duncan)
NBA Champs 06 - Heat(win) vs Mavericks (Had the best player Wade)
NBA Champs 07 - Spurs(win) vs Cavs (Up for debate, LeBron was on the rise and Duncan was starting to slow down)**
NBA Champs 08 - Celtics(win) vs Lakers **(Celtics did not have the best player)**
NBA Champs 09 - Lakers(win) vs Magic (Had the best player Kobe)
NBA Champs 10 - Lakers(win) vs Celtics (Had the best player Kobe)
NBA Champs 11 - Mavs(win) vs Heat **(Mavs did not have the best player)**
NBA Champs 12 - Heat(win) vs Thunder (Had the best player LeBron)
NBA Champs 13 - Heat(win) vs Spurs (Had the best player LeBron)
NBA Champs 14 - Spurs(win) vs Heat **(Spurs did not have the best player)**

So 20 out of the last 24 championships the team with the best player in a 7 game series has won. Quite the marketing ploy.

I don't see anyone on the Cleveland cavaliers who was on the Spurs last year so I'm pretty sure that in reality they are all losers; and by the 'best player wins more times than not' logic,

That's like saying Jordan is a loser because, he did not make it to the finals or win it every year.

Cleveland lacks the best players as well

Not liking LeBron is one thing but saying he isn't the best player just doesn't make much sense.

[sasper]

this is the single shittest thread in the history of myth forums

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Cleveland is 10th in the league at defending the 3, and the east is better than the west at shooting the 3 having 6 teams in the top 10

Top 10 of what? You must be cherry picking an odd stat to argue this...

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Oh I see, you're looking at 3 point %. That doesn't correlate to being a better shooting team. For example, Washington has the 4th best % but only makes 6 threes a game. Basically their % is high because Wall collapses the defense then likes to pass out to corner threes. You can't compare easy, open corner 3s to Curry's ability to take a long three right out of a crossover, or Lillard's quick step back. If anything, 3 pointers made is a more indicative stat. Also, the sample size for the season is still a bit small for stats regarding 3s.

There is absolutely nothing that the E conference does better, sorry. Cavs will get spanked if they reach finals, but I think you should be happy with just getting there this first season together.

[Chohan]

As far as 'cherry picking' again I wasn't the one who brought up that original topic, I was simply pointing out that to say the Cavs would have a losing record against the western conference because, Cleveland can't defend the 3 is just a silly statement. When in reality permitter and wing defenders are the strength of Cleveland's defense. If you want to say Cleveland would struggle against teams like the Rockets, Portland, Memphis, Pelicans and even the Kings for the match up problems all of their bigs bring against the cavs then sure. Love, Varejao and Tristian Thompson just aren't athletic and big enough to defend or shut down the good offensive athletic bigs in the NBA. Those teams present more of a problem than say the Clippers, Warriors or Mavs. Basketball more than any sport is about match ups especially when 1-2 players can massively impact games.

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Mavs have Nowizski & Chandler, Clippers have Blake & Deandre, what are you talking about? Warriors would def stomp cavs, they are really deep and cavs are not. Also, Irving is not a good perimeter defender, haven't watched Waiters enough to judge, but you're basically just talking about LeBron... against Curry + Klay at least one of them is going to be getting shots off with ease. Cavs would be better off trading Irving for a rim protector, and more depth.

[grim]

This thread is the biggest waste of space on this forum.

[Chohan]

Mavs have Nowizski & Chandler, Clippers have Blake & Deandre, what are you talking about? Warriors would def stomp cavs, they are really deep and cavs are not. Also, Irving is not a good perimeter defender, haven't watched Waiters enough to judge, but you're basically just talking about LeBron... against Curry + Klay at least one of them is going to be getting shots off with ease. Cavs would be better off trading Irving for a rim protector, and more depth.

And none of those players listed can play with their back to basket and consistently average 25-30 points a game 14 rebounds and block shots the way Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins and LaMarcus Alridge can, or the combo of Marc Gasol and Z-Bo. DeAndre Jordan is garbage in any meaningful close games he shoots .38% from the FT line.......38% and Blake Griffin doesn't have the length to give Tristian Thompson problems.

And Irving was not a good defender not sure if you've watched cavs games this year but he's doing amazing on the defensive end, and some of the cavs depth was due to Dellavadova being injured and missing like 14 of the 1st 17 games. He played the entire 4th quarter tonight and made Kyle Lowry look like some bench rotation scrub most of the quarter. In addition to LeBron, Shawn Marion has done very well on the defensive end as well on opposing team SG-SF's he starts but he's only needed for 18-22 minutes a game makes it easy for him to go all out the entire time.

There is literally 0 chance Irving gets traded if he doesn't play his entire career in Cleveland i'd be shocked, the only person I could see being moved is *maybe* waiters and that would only be if it was like a waiters for hibbert or waiters for mozgov.

[par73]

I don't know why I even bother sometimes but for conversations sake...

Cleveland at New York tomorrow will be a good measurement of where they are in the East. If they can't make the spread,

This just doesn't make any sense, maybe if you would've said Cleveland at Toronto (which Cleveland won) the Knicks are a measuring stick for basically the 76ers, Lakers and Celtics and that's about it. The Knicks are bad the only games they will end up winning is when Carmelo and JR Smith get lucky for enough 3's to fall. On a side note it's hilarious to see Carmelo be labeled as a 'star' and he can't even manage to carry an eastern conference team to a .500 w/l.

cleveland at toronto? Derozan is injured so I have no real idea what you're talking about.

the knicks are playing at an abysmal level and are pretty easy to pick apart. kyrie went off for something like 43 points but only had 2 or 3 assists. lebron had over 10 assists. the game was decided by 3 points. this was a close game despite the fact the cavaliers are cruniac's favorites to win the NBA title and the knicks have had their worst start to the season in the history of their franchise. despite having such a terrible record, the knick's defensive efficiency is top 5 worst in the league. this game was decided by 3 points. a reason why this game was of such great measurement for cavs in maybe their 16th game with a brand new core, is how terrible the knicks are. it's easy to see what the cavaliers flaw is in this game: kyrie needs to become just as important as a facilitator as lebron (something lebron has chewed him out for, no doubt).
when the game got close and the cavs were losing, they put lebron in charge of the entire offense. this worked on 12/4/14 but the knicks are so effing terrible that I don't see it working against any playoff contending teams.

for conversations sake, the ancient amare stoudamire plays much more of an important role than melo getting 3's to fall or JR smith playing entirely (JR has not been the same since his hissy fit thrown against the celtics in the playoffs two seasons ago.

I don't see them taking 3rd and perhaps could lose the 4 seed to Atlanta or Miami.

Miami will be lucky to get 7th-8th seed, I would have even said possibly miss the playoffs but the Hornets somehow have regressed into a pile of crap.

I think the erection caused by the return of the former cleveland cavalier to his home team has caused you to suffer from an aneurism, perhaps you forget what team he is coming from since he's been gone. they're call the miami heat, they went to the finals the last four years and won two in a row. bosh is playing at an unbelievably high level and when wade was absent the heat would lose.
7-8 really? you're putting Milwaukee ahead of them ? jesus, consult a doctor because the blinding light that is lebron has been on the cavs for more than 4 hours.

Cleveland also terrible against the three so I see a probable losing record against the lights out western conference.

Cleveland is 10th in the league at defending the 3, and the east is better than the west at shooting the 3 having 6 teams in the top 10

maybe you're not watching the games or the cavs just don't give a shit because its the beginning of the season. cleveland hasn't really been attacked by the 3, falling into the lower half of 3p shots taken against (despite being in the east, who apparently have better 3pt shooters). sure irving is very efficent at defending the 3, but he's not 5 players and while you could name off other players on the cavs roster like numbers at bingo i still find their 3 point defense suspect. thier offense is getting into gear so it will make up for it in most cases.

statistics of 3 point efficiency by conference are skewed, the west have kobe bryant and rudy gay.

This is not necessarily true at all, and determining the 'best' player is a product of factoring who wins more often the not. I'm pretty sure the most important factors in the playoffs is the better team (at that moment) happens to win more often than not.
Despite the fact that the 'best player' argument is a complete fallacy yet useful marketing ploy, you argue the best are determined through winning.

Notice I said "Whoever has the best player tends to win more times than not."

As for your "marketing ploy" not even sure how that even applies here at all but once again actual facts here starting from the 90's.

NBA Champs 91 - Bulls(win) vs Lakers (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 92 - Bulls(win) vs Trail Blazers (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 93 - Bulls(win) vs Suns (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 94 - Rockets(win) vs New York Knicks (Had the best player Hakeem)
NBA Champs 95 - Rockets(win) vs Magic (Had the best player Hakeem)
NBA Champs 96 - Bulls(win) vs SuperSonics (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 97 - Bulls(win) vs Jazz (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 98 - Bulls(win) vs Jazz (Had the best player Jordan)
NBA Champs 99 - Spurs(win) vs Knicks (Had the best player Duncan)
NBA Champs 00 - Lakers(win) vs Pacers (Had the best player Shaq)
NBA Champs 01 - Lakers(win) vs 76ers (Had the best player Shaq)
NBA Champs 02 - Lakers(win) vs Nets (Had the best player Shaq)
NBA Champs 03 - Spurs(win) vs Nets (Had the best player Duncan)
NBA Champs 04 - Pistons(win) vs Lakers **(Pistons did not have the best player)**
NBA Champs 05 - Spurs(win) vs Pistons (Had the best player Duncan)
NBA Champs 06 - Heat(win) vs Mavericks (Had the best player Wade)
NBA Champs 07 - Spurs(win) vs Cavs (Up for debate, LeBron was on the rise and Duncan was starting to slow down)**
NBA Champs 08 - Celtics(win) vs Lakers **(Celtics did not have the best player)**
NBA Champs 09 - Lakers(win) vs Magic (Had the best player Kobe)
NBA Champs 10 - Lakers(win) vs Celtics (Had the best player Kobe)
NBA Champs 11 - Mavs(win) vs Heat **(Mavs did not have the best player)**
NBA Champs 12 - Heat(win) vs Thunder (Had the best player LeBron)
NBA Champs 13 - Heat(win) vs Spurs (Had the best player LeBron)
NBA Champs 14 - Spurs(win) vs Heat **(Spurs did not have the best player)**

So 20 out of the last 24 championships the team with the best player in a 7 game series has won. Quite the marketing ploy.

i'd like to point out when you stated "Whoever has the best player tends to win more times than not," i was thinking you meant the regular season games + playoffs series games, entire kit and kabootle, not, simply, the finals. if i was trying to make a list of "Whoever has the best player tends to win more times than not in the NBA finals", I'd start that list in 1991 as well.

for conversation sake (let's talk strictly finals), this is a nice list but it falls off at the end.
dirk was a much better player than wade in 2006, dirk lost. wade went to the free throw line a million times, maybe you paid no attention.
in 2008 the celtics did have the better player. kevin garnett dominated like no other, it was the last year he was truly healthy and the last year of his prime. look it up.
you have a huge logical mess with 2007, 2013 and 2014 (let's forget that dirk was the better player in the 2011 NBA finals because we're riding the lebron train)

duncan is the better player in 2007, he just needed to be relied on less as the spurs always marvelously put together a solid team. lebron might have statistically done better but he was probably the only player on the cavs that year with a PER above 15.00. Since you're fishy about giving credit where it's due, David The Admiral Robinson was the best player on the 1999 spurs.
in 2013 and 2014 nba finals i'd argue tony parker was better than lebron and duncan but that's my personal opinion.

I don't see anyone on the Cleveland cavaliers who was on the Spurs last year so I'm pretty sure that in reality they are all losers; and by the 'best player wins more times than not' logic,

That's like saying Jordan is a loser because, he did not make it to the finals or win it every year.

yeah like in 1994-1995 when he returned to the bulls. hakeem and the rockets won the finals. he was a loser that year. he wasn't a winner until 1991 and he wasn't a winner on the washington wizards.
it's simple logic, if you didn't win you're not the winner. your focus is the nba finals, so this should be easy to understand.

Cleveland lacks the best players as well

Not liking LeBron is one thing but saying he isn't the best player just doesn't make much sense.

I meant the best player.

Anthony Davis is something new. Something never seen before, something that represents—and may as well be from—the future.

That is why the search for comparable players from the past never seems to yield any results.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2293 ... top-trying




the cavs are playing much better since that awful game against the knicks. their stock is rising. bynum should be backing up varejeo but cavalier managment is foolishly not taking cruns advice, disappointment!

[par73]

Mavs have Nowizski & Chandler, Clippers have Blake & Deandre, what are you talking about? Warriors would def stomp cavs, they are really deep and cavs are not. Also, Irving is not a good perimeter defender, haven't watched Waiters enough to judge, but you're basically just talking about LeBron... against Curry + Klay at least one of them is going to be getting shots off with ease. Cavs would be better off trading Irving for a rim protector, and more depth.

And none of those players listed can play with their back to basket and consistently average 25-30 points a game 14 rebounds and block shots the way Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis, Demarcus Cousins and LaMarcus Alridge can, or the combo of Marc Gasol and Z-Bo. DeAndre Jordan is garbage in any meaningful close games he shoots .38% from the FT line.......38% and Blake Griffin doesn't have the length to give Tristian Thompson problems.

And Irving was not a good defender not sure if you've watched cavs games this year but he's doing amazing on the defensive end, and some of the cavs depth was due to Dellavadova being injured and missing like 14 of the 1st 17 games. He played the entire 4th quarter tonight and made Kyle Lowry look like some bench rotation scrub most of the quarter. In addition to LeBron, Shawn Marion has done very well on the defensive end as well on opposing team SG-SF's he starts but he's only needed for 18-22 minutes a game makes it easy for him to go all out the entire time.

There is literally 0 chance Irving gets traded if he doesn't play his entire career in Cleveland i'd be shocked, the only person I could see being moved is *maybe* waiters and that would only be if it was like a waiters for hibbert or waiters for mozgov.

look, sorry for cherry picking on the cavaliers questionable defense of 3 point shooting.
varajeo is a rim protector, deandre jordan is a rim protector. lets be honest, jordan isn't in LA to be depended on for free throws made or offensive effiency. he's 4-5th option if any option at all. in fact i don't think he's even an offensive option unless he grabs an offensive rebound.


hearing shit like 'blake griffen doesn't have the length to give tristian thompson problems' is probably the most hilarious thing i've heard in this thread.

waiters is trash right now and if indiana traded hibbert or denver traded mozgov straight up for waiters then their general manager should be fined by the league, the organization, and their mother. waiters'll move else where, but probably not till his contract expires.
the cavs probably don't have to bother with trading anyone with the revenue boost kevin love and, namely, lebron james is bringing to their franchise. they also, get this, just signed love and james. free agents will want to sign there. they should be (and are) focused with working on the team internally rather, than looking elsewhere for help or a roster boost.

[Chohan]

The Raptors without DeRozan, are still better than the Knicks.

Kyrie doesn't need to be the main facilitator when LeBron is on the floor. Kyrie is one the most potent offensive players in the league and his accuracy from 3 is amazing, if he's hot they tend to just feed him the ball over and over it varies each night.

The Heat also don't have LeBron anymore (or Ray Allen), they have Chris Bosh and a crippled Wade. The heat are almost the worst rebounding team in the league and bottom level offensive team, as for Chris Bosh playing at an 'unbelievably high level' he's averaging 21 Points 8 Rebounds 0.7 Blocks and more turnovers than assists a game.

Giannas and Jabari are just going to keep getting better as time goes on and the Bucks have already been competitive in every single game this year outside of 2 losses to the Raptors and Thunder.

People don't shoot 3's against the cavs for 2 reasons, any bad misses and Kevin Love just outlets to LeBron, Kyrie or Waiters for an easy 2. And Marion, LeBron, Waiters and Kyrie are all pretty quick defenders and it's hard to get separation for them. Your the only person who seems to think Cleveland is awful at defending 3 pointers, if it was the case teams would be shooting more against them.

And I don't or never have liked Wade, but he was by FAR the best player in the 2006 finals it wasn't even close. Perhaps you should look it up Garnett wasn't even the best player on the celtics that year Pierce was. Thinking David Robinson was better than Duncan in 99 just shows the effects of long term drug abuse.

You don't make sense a lot of times as well so I'm not sure if your saying you think Anthony Davis is better than LeBron or not? He isn't at the moment but I think he will be in a few years.

Varejao isn't a rim protector he never has been, it's the one thing the Cavs lack Dion Waiters is probably the cavs best shot blocker in all reality.

Tristian Thompson is an exceptional defensive player.

Waiters was doing bad because, he was forced to play point guard off the bench a lot when that's not his normal role since Delly was injured. The very 1st 2 games Delly is back this year from injury Dion scores 20 off the bench each night.

"the cavs probably don't have to bother with trading anyone with the revenue boost kevin love and, namely, lebron james is bringing to their franchise." Not sure how revenue matters at all to the Cavs owner, the Cavs have one of the richest owners in the league he literally owns half of downtown Cleveland and half of Detroit. The Cavs are probably just a small % of Gilberts money


And unless I misspoke somewhere I don't think I ever once said anything about the Cavs winning the finals. I think they can easily make it to the finals since derrick rose can't chew gum without breaking his back, and when you have the best player in the game you always have a chance to win a 7 game series regardless of who it's against.


Spoiler Alert Kyrie is my favorite player anyways

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

I've been watching the Bucks too, they are fun, will be a good team in coming years. Would be better for them to miss the playoffs this year, but the E is so bad it might not happen. Speaking of which, watching Irving get torched by the likes of Brandon Knight doesn't help your case. OK, maybe he's a bit better than last year, but that's a low bar. His handles make him fun to watch though, I'll give you that.

[Chohan]

Miami Heat. Blown. The. Fuk. Out. by Denver Chris Bosh 14 points 2 Rebounds, Elite™ Dwayne Cripples 10 Points 3 Turnovers

[par73]

on the second night of a back to back... vs young athletic denver... faried just game back after 4-5 days of rest due to his back...

you can tell somethings up because aaron afflalo actually had an efficient game.

miami still landin 4-6 in the east


the hot dip on dellaedova and lebron being out lead to a nice 600 dollar profit from last week, thanks crun

OKC absolutely torched cleveland... it looked like the heat vs the thunder 2012 finals...

[East Wind tmnt]

sup playas

[c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊]

Nowizski

And none of those players listed can play with their back to basket

lol.

Sup ew

[East Wind tmnt]

I can def. see the heat going to the finals but not beating whoever gets out of the west which seems like a crapshoot.

[East Wind tmnt]

to paris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YS0c53FO-E

"up in the club like dirk nowinski"
^lol

[Chohan]

I'm not sure how you guys think the Heat could beat Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Toronto or the Wizards in the playoffs let alone make the finals.

[par73]

I'm not sure what Cruniac thinks of Cleveland's 30 point loss to the Hawks at home, but he knows what I think.
You done got Shelvin Mack'd.



Hi ew

Edit: hawks were 12-16 with the three in the first half, ended at 16-28.

Please tell me more about the Cleveland cavaliers superior 3 pt shooting defense, I'm dying to know about it.

Atlanta underrated and undervalued, no surprises.

[par73]

@crun

Garnett won regular season MVP but you argue Pierce was better. Pierce won Finals MVP.
Garnett was a defensive anchor in 2008 that no one could stop. Offense wins game but Defense wins championships. Garnett wasn't the same and/or injured the next three years when the celtics failed to win the finals or advance in the playoffs. Don't argue with me, this conversation is over: in order to proceed you'd had to have watched a single celtics game from 2008. Pierce is probably my favorite player of all time, to grow up with, watch play and overall enjoy as a fan. but still, Garnett was the key.

I guess it's not surprising a racist Caucasian bigot from Ohio would refuse to believe veteran legend David Robinson was better than Tim Duncan in the shortened 1999 season. Robinson was a defensive powerhouse and with Duncan bringing the offensive energy in the post The Admiral Robinson was ably to improve his Rebounding rates, even at age 33 with Duncan rebounding right next to him. You also can't forget that Robinson, despite being a grizzled ancient veteran, openly took Duncan under his wing to help bring Duncan to the next level. But then again, how could you forget it when you've again probably not watched a single full game from those 99 Spurs. Regardless, while Duncan 'won finals MVP' there is no doubt in my mind who was 'better' in 1999.

Very charming stuff bringing up Chris Bosh's assist turnover ratio, as if Spolestra is assigning him to facilitate the offensive and create openings for other players to finish. Do you even watch basketball?


I felt one of the more clear points I made in that post was 'Anthony Davis is [definitively] better than Lebron', also I enjoy the fact your statement went from 'Blake Griffin would have no answer for Tristan Thompson', to 'TT is a great defensive player'. Lol you're a riot.

P.s. It makes sense Kyrie is your favorite player as you are quick to ignore his shortcomings and place value in offensive finishing above all else in terms of measuring player value.

[Chohan]

I mean you realize Tim Duncan is black right....oh that's right he doesn't listen to rap and isn't covered in tattoo's so in your mind he isn't 'black enough'. I realize you love having the liberal victim mindset but at least learn what the term racist means before you go slinging it around looking for a pity party.

[par73]

Tim Duncan is biracial, his mother is of Caucasian descent and father of African descent.

I guess it's not surprising to find one suspected of being racist, or a racist, to be completely wrong about a persons genotype by misunderstanding phenotype as well as make stereotypical/benevolently sexist remarks about an individual in order to justify whether they are worthy of stereotypical label or not.

I'm pretty sure I have heard enough "idiots, inferior" and "blame/murder the non-white" talk out of you where I actually believe you believe in that garbage that has spewed out of your brain. There's only two players on myth more vocally forthcoming about their bigotry: Brandon hex and Pogue.

Besides, if anyone needs a pity party it's the predominantly Caucasian and unfortunate population of Ohio who have not only have a bust in White Johnny Football Manziel, but have their basketball team, once favored to win the NBA finals, lose by 30 points at home against a team they could face against in the playoffs.

Let's stick to basketball, I bet you thought Jason Kidd is 'white' too. lol

[Chohan]

I mean you so

@crun

Garnett won regular season MVP but you argue Pierce was better. Pierce won Finals MVP.

Don't argue with me, this conversation is over: in order to proceed you'd had to have watched a single celtics game from 2008.

You do realize Kobe Bryant was the 2008 MVP and that Garnett won 0 MVP's while he was with the Celtics? I'm sure you were heavy on the drug usage then, but perhaps you need to watch a game.

I guess it's not surprising a racist Caucasian bigot from Ohio would refuse to believe veteran legend David Robinson was better than Tim Duncan in the shortened 1999 season. Robinson was a defensive powerhouse and with Duncan bringing the offensive energy in the post The Admiral Robinson was ably to improve his Rebounding rates, even at age 33 with Duncan rebounding right next to him. You also can't forget that Robinson, despite being a grizzled ancient veteran, openly took Duncan under his wing to help bring Duncan to the next level. But then again, how could you forget it when you've again probably not watched a single full game from those 99 Spurs. Regardless, while Duncan 'won finals MVP' there is no doubt in my mind who was 'better' in 1999.

1999 - Tim Duncan - 21.7 PPG 11.4 REB 2.4 AST 2.5 BLK 0.9 STL
1999 - David Robinson - 15.8 PPG 10.0 REB 2.1 AST 2.4 BLK 1.4 STL

Again I'm not so sure why your so obsessed with race, perhaps you should focus on the facts and ignore skin color. Tim Duncan is an all time top 10 player and easily surpassed Robinson in only his 2nd year.

P.s. It makes sense Kyrie is your favorite player as you are quick to ignore his shortcomings and place value in offensive finishing above all else in terms of measuring player value.

I've literally not once ever said Kyrie doesn't have a lot to improve on, hell he's 22 years old. No 22 year olds are ever complete players. He's my favorite player for the reason I favor loyalty above everything and all major media bs aside from major markets wanting to steal him away he wanted to stay in Cleveland and signed to stay past 2020 and committed himself to the city.

[Chohan]

I'm not sure what Cruniac thinks of Cleveland's 30 point loss to the Hawks at home, but he knows what I think.
You done got Shelvin Mack'd.

Please tell me more about the Cleveland cavaliers superior 3 pt shooting defense, I'm dying to know about it.

Atlanta underrated and undervalued, no surprises.

Underrated and undervalued by who? Atlanta was very unlucky in a few games otherwise they could easily be 23-2. The east is a 5 team league with Atlanta on top and chicago, cleveland, wizards and raptors closely behind them.

But of course you want to cherry pick 1 game and ignore the game when Cleveland beat Atlanta by 30. It's the regular season and the cavs are still a team learning to play with each other shit happens, just like shit happened when Cleveland stomped Atlanta.