Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

A single berserk reached us yesterday, after having come all the way over the mountains from the city of Willow, fourteen hundred miles away. He delivered to Alric a single package the size of a man's fist, wrapped in rags, and refuses to talk with anyone about events in the West.
NewMutator
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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby NewMutator » 09 Apr 2013, 01:36

Have you tried double-tapping the preset #?

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 09 Apr 2013, 01:52

Way to not read the thread wwo... in the mean time you can use shift-f or f+h FWIW. Or as LN mentions, alternate presets. But yeah, read up for the discussion and resolution.

As an aside though, there are plenty of "real myth players" that don't use 'f'. As the GKGTV thread brought out, not everyone plays the same way, so maybe keep your anger in check. This is a beta after all...

(And yes I'm well aware that I'm just setting myself up for some dumb reply... whatever ;)).

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby wwo » 09 Apr 2013, 02:35

You either serve your clients/customers or you serve yourself. Removing functionality is terrible design.

punk: I haven't read the thread; correct. Here's what I'm doing: not beta-testing new shit because the old shit is broken now. I'll counter ignorance and arrogance with whatever I deem appropriate. Don't try to give me lessons on discourse. You're modders, interfering amateur hobbyists fucking up a source of entertainment. Learn your fucking role.

New Mutator: Why would I do that? I have 'cycle preset' mapped to 'x'. Why would you replace a simple keystroke function with all this horseshit?

Is it impossible for you guys to improve anything without breaking other stuff in exchange? This exact shit happened in 1.6 with CAPSLOCK. Fucking casual players.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Aki » 09 Apr 2013, 03:15

For regular KOTH with multiple flags, doesn't scoring already scale with the number of flags you have? The only map I can think of with multiple KOTH flags is recon.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 09 Apr 2013, 03:15

wwo wrote:Removing functionality is terrible design.

No functionality is removed, it is just modified (i.e. shift/non-shift-'f' swapped) due to a request from other folks. Most likely will be reverted, but that's besides the point. Our people tried to get in touch with your people to book an appointment and discuss the serious issue of putting something in a beta test, but unfortunately you were booked solid, apparently teaching people "their roles".

wwo wrote:You either serve your clients/customers or you serve yourself. ... Learn your fucking role.

Lol! I hope you realize how ridiculous that is and why. But I won't tell you because you don't want lessons in discourse ;)

wwo wrote:Fucking casual players.

It's ok, we can resolve this in the finals wwo :D

I've got to admit that I'm sort of chuckling imagining the steam coming out of you right now...

Aki wrote:For regular KOTH with multiple flags, doesn't scoring already scale with the number of flags you have? The only map I can think of with multiple KOTH flags is recon.

Nope, I believe it's just whoever has more gets the time and everyone else gets nothing.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Pyro » 09 Apr 2013, 03:21

Browning, go to you plugins folder, what plugins do you see that start with "Patch" in the name? Did you install the beta somewhere else and just moved in the EXE into your myth folder? As for the health of units, capslock can toggle it, so you don't have to keep it on all the time (press it for on, press it for off). You can even change the setting in prefs to Health Bars instead of Selection Boxes if you prefer just the health bars showing.

GiantKillerGen wrote:I don't get it. Why would the F key have anything to do with alternate preset recall. It should still cycle through the presets same as normal. That would be a reason why you would want to use the F key (to center on the units) instead of any preset recall.


The idea is, alternate preset recall makes recalling specific presets easier (same #key to center on them too) which makes using the rotating preset key less needed. The key then gets used for formations instead. The help pdf in your myth2 folder explains the new key combos, including a few others.

wwo wrote:...need to get actual myth players in your pre-build chat sessions before you go fucking up shit.


This is what the public beta is for. As punkuser mentioned, not all Mythers play the same (even non-casual ones). Functionality did not get removed, but it was altered. This change if nothing else, shows who uses it the same and who doesn't. Magma doesn't have clients, but listens and has no obligation to themselves or others as they are made up of volunteers.









wwo:
Image

Magma:
Image


Speak up if something is wrong (intentional changes or not). Do it with anger and you might get ignored...


Image

If people stop testing at the first sign of a bug or a change they don't like, then something else they don't like will be missed and stay in the final version. By then complaining about it will be too late.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Giant Killer General » 09 Apr 2013, 04:43

wwo, while I agree with you in this instance that magma made a somewhat embarrassing error, your instant flaming is really not warranted. You have been riding punkuser's nuts in a couple different threads now. They did make some improvements to the game, that took time to do, they deserve some credit for that. This is only a beta, and they said quite quickly and multiple times that they are going to revert that change immediately in the next beta build because they realize what a TERRIBLE mistake it was. No harm no foul. Calm the fuck down.

pyro: you will always very much need a preset cycle no matter how easy the individual preset recalls are. What if I have only 2 presets. When I want to change presets is it easier for me to hit 1 and 2 on the keyboard (giving me opportunity to fumble in my mind which was preset 1 and which was preset 2, as well as fumble with my fingers), or just keep hitting the same preset cycle button which can be bound to any easy location? So this is the part where I don't think you have a good grasp on competitive myth playing.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 09 Apr 2013, 05:36

Ok folks, how's this for UT dialog:
http://myth.punkuser.net/misc/ut_dialog.jpg

You get a super-set of what you got in 1.7.2 (i.e. status bar, toggle-able) and you can actually see slightly more than 1.7.2 as well. Win?

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Renwood » 09 Apr 2013, 09:07

Sure punk looks ok.

BTW can we ever get a checkbox in fear where a unit that dies when using projectiles into monsters does NOT say "casualty"? Just like how it works with wights that suicide. Otherwise proj into mon is half implemented and not useful.
Also the unit created with proj into mon should be selected by the owner of the unit that created it, or you have to reselect them as soon at they appear, and its very awkward in battle.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby tirri » 09 Apr 2013, 10:37

i love the way presets work in this beta with the alternate preset recall so please at least keep this as an option (ie alt+number instantly makes preset and clicking number recalls it). although there is a learning curve in using formations but i cant think of a better solution

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Dantski » 09 Apr 2013, 12:37

PunkUser wrote:Ok folks, how's this for UT dialog


Terrible! Now that I can't read how to play the gametype when trading, my win rate will plummet.

This is not a serious response FYI

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Gekko » 09 Apr 2013, 13:09

I really like the zoom-out for films. Good for match reviews and to watch koth ffa games without moving the camera :O
Now there's no zoom out when you play, maybe it's good that itäs not possible but what if captains could have ability to zoom out further...


... myth on a touchpad. wut? :D

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Renwood » 09 Apr 2013, 14:47

You can zoom out in gameplay...as an Observer.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 09 Apr 2013, 19:19

tirri wrote:i love the way presets work in this beta with the alternate preset recall so please at least keep this as an option (ie alt+number instantly makes preset and clicking number recalls it). although there is a learning curve in using formations but i cant think of a better solution

Definitely they are staying in, glad you like them. I took about a month or so to get used to them (of light playing), mostly the formation switching but now I'm quicker than I ever was and can easily manage up to 5 or so presets quickly.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Pyro » 10 Apr 2013, 19:53

GiantKillerGen wrote:So this is the part where I don't think you have a good grasp on competitive myth playing.


That is a non sequitur.

We all know players are different, and they all use different configurations. Alternate preset recall isn't for everyone, and if you intend to mostly use 2 or 3 presets the way you have, then you won't want alternate preset recall. (I did say after all that you wouldn't like it.) Besides there is always the mouse wheel option for that even if it isn't like the F key. I was only explaining the differences, I never stated which is better or worse, nor did I have any part in making it the way it works.

That's the thing about all this, not all configurations are known. Consider the UT change, the reason this didn't seem like an issue when it was first done was due in part that the people trying it had bigger resolutions (like the res punk used in his UT image) and it didn't really block much at all for those users. If it did, hey just moved. Somehow smaller resolution users were overlooked.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 10 Apr 2013, 20:02

Pyro wrote:Consider the UT change, the reason this didn't seem like an issue when it was first done was due in part that the people trying it had bigger resolutions (like the res punk used in his UT image) and it didn't really block much at all for those users. If it did, hey just moved. Somehow smaller resolution users were overlooked.

Heh yeah, and I even ran in 1080p vs my regular 2560x1600 to make that screenshot ;) But yeah it should have gotten tested in lower resolutions, just stuff gets missed. No real harm, that's what public betas are for.

Now to be fair, the "alternate-style" scheme of numbered presets is well-established in esports RTS games now, so it's hard to make the claim that it is sub-optimal (and no, being the best doesn't prove ones control scheme is optimal given the size of the community; it only shows that it is at least competitive; plus it says nothing about control schemes that are new). That said, it's completely valid that people have learned the classic Myth controls for 10+ years and should not have to switch now if they don't want to. To that end, the 'f' change was based on incomplete assumptions and thus I've swapped it (back) to 'f' including centering and shift-f not.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Giant Killer General » 10 Apr 2013, 20:31

it doesn't matter, clearly my control scheme is a very valid one and thus you cannot alter / hinder it. also, comparing myth to other esport RTS games is a huge mistake.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 10 Apr 2013, 23:38

GiantKillerGen wrote:it doesn't matter, clearly my control scheme is a very valid one and thus you cannot alter / hinder it.

Is there an echo in here? :)

also, comparing myth to other esport RTS games is a huge mistake.

Not in strategy, but it's very valid to compare controls. The difference there is that myth controls are not critical to the point of optimizing down to "one true way" (as evidenced by the variation among the top players), so personal preference has more leeway.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Zak » 10 Apr 2013, 23:51

punkUser wrote:Not in strategy, but it's very valid to compare controls. The difference there is that myth controls are not critical to the point of optimizing down to "one true way" (as evidenced by the variation among the top players), so personal preference has more leeway.


Agreed, there is a lot of variation in how the top players of this game use their controls. I've also heard positive things from some less skilled players about how 1.8 is going to make unit handling easier for them.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby par73 » 11 Apr 2013, 00:25

No one wants less skilled players to have unit handling easier for them, they need to man the fuck up and learn how to play right like everyone else who's ever been more skilled than them.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby NewMutator » 11 Apr 2013, 01:35

par73 wrote:we need to attack nerd hubs like an invasive species to convince "new" players to start playing myth.


par73 wrote:No one wants less skilled players to have unit handling easier for them, they need to man the *cruiser* up and learn how to play right like everyone else who's ever been more skilled than them.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Zak » 11 Apr 2013, 01:54

NewMutator wrote:
par73 wrote:we need to attack nerd hubs like an invasive species to convince "new" players to start playing myth.


par73 wrote:No one wants less skilled players to have unit handling easier for them, they need to man the *cruiser* up and learn how to play right like everyone else who's ever been more skilled than them.


Paris wants to create a master race of myth 2 players, by getting as many people here as possible, and then griefing them until only the most skilled, patient, and trollish players remain.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ » 11 Apr 2013, 17:55

Wanted to play Legend of GorAsh today but it no longer appears in my plugins list.

Any chance you guys could make meshes searchable in the same manner as plugins & tagsets?

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Giant Killer General » 11 Apr 2013, 20:11

btw punk, there needs to still be some kind of indicator when you are the captain during the loading screen. ppl just noticed that earlier today.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Pyro » 11 Apr 2013, 20:53

Milk Man wrote:Wanted to play Legend of GorAsh today but it no longer appears in my plugins list.


Search for "loga". If you did this online, make sure you checked the coop checkbox if you want to search for coop mapsets or uncheck it to search for ffa/team mapsets.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 11 Apr 2013, 21:34

GiantKillerGen wrote:btw punk, there needs to still be some kind of indicator when you are the captain during the loading screen.

... really? The load screen on modern systems is basically non-existent. I don't think it's worth relying on people have ancient systems with a feature... If the cap doesn't have enough time then PT should be longer.

How about instead I just make it so that all loading is just a black screen so that you have to assume your system is just still loading? :P


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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Giant Killer General » 12 Apr 2013, 03:55

hey I am just letting you know what others have commented on. They do have somewhat of a point, everyone is accustomed to checking during loading if they are cap or not. If they see they aren't the cap then they usually tab out, or go take a quick piss, etc. Not a huge deal but would be a nice to have it back.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby NewMutator » 12 Apr 2013, 04:43

The situation described is really only applicable in random rabble games, but that's still a significant fraction of games played. The UT dialog was removed while waiting for players so people don't have the eyesore of overlapping dialogs, but if it's moving to the top of the screen I don't see any reason not to revert it back, since its absence generally cues players that they have time to pop off and grab a drink or what-have-you.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Renwood » 12 Apr 2013, 05:05

Yea do not take away the UT box when the game is loading! Thats how people see if they are going to be captain or not while waiting for everybody to load. Like people said, people currently and for the last 15 years go "O hey no UT box, good, I am NOT captain, so I can go afk a min. Removing this for 1.8 makes no sense and should never have been done in the first place. Fix broken things/bugs, add cool new features and LEAVE THE REST ALONE!

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby NewMutator » 12 Apr 2013, 05:46

Renwood wrote:Removing this for 1.8 makes no sense and should never have been done in the first place.


I don't agree. I think it did make sense under the circumstances (overlapping dialogs).

Renwood wrote:Give Magma a break, creating a game for MULTIPLE PLATFORMS and releasing all at the same time is no easy task. Lend a little help to make certain this game we all know and love can be polished into the gem it deserves to be.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Renwood » 12 Apr 2013, 06:49

nice try LN

When I say give them a break, I am talking about bugs on multiple OS and platfroms.

Not Boneheaded changes to remove functionality that has been there for 15 years.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Arzenic » 12 Apr 2013, 14:41

GKG ~Friend of the Myth Community

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby par73 » 12 Apr 2013, 14:56

NewMutator wrote:The situation described is really only applicable in random rabble games, but that's still a significant fraction of games played. The UT dialog was removed while waiting for players so people don't have the eyesore of overlapping dialogs, but if it's moving to the top of the screen I don't see any reason not to revert it back, since its absence generally cues players that they have time to pop off and grab a drink or what-have-you.



Honestly, if I am stuck in the loading screen and I see the Unit Trade dialog, I am more likely to not tab out and be ready to captain. I don't think this feature should have been removed at all, its not really an eye sore and I'd rather be informed if I need to pay attention to the entirety of PT or if I can return within the last 30 or so seconds to receive my orders, set my presets, and prepare to take the lives of all your yellow boxed green health bar sprites.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby GodzFire » 12 Apr 2013, 18:25

There is a discussion going over at Project Magma on how maps are sorted. In 1.8 it was changed to show mappacks first by the number of maps they contain, instead of all maps alphabetically. Mindbrain pointed this out. I personally agree with him, however in order for that change to be corrected we need more people to state their opinion on the sorting.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby par73 » 12 Apr 2013, 20:23

3rd field test without using 1.8
3. Yo is there any way you can put the difficulty under the Unit Trading dialogue box thing so I can know if darker units are stronger or lighter units are stronger? thanks.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 12 Apr 2013, 21:44

par73 wrote:3. Yo is there any way you can put the difficulty under the Unit Trading dialogue box thing so I can know if darker units are stronger or lighter units are stronger? thanks.

Difficulty/mode is now visible in the status bar at the top, as it normally is during gameplay. (Previously the UT dialog replaced the status bar.) But I'm not sure I know what you mean with respect to units being "stronger", unless you're referring to some specific map... the HP modifications and such are SP-only, no?

Interested in preferences on plugin sorting as well.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby NewMutator » 13 Apr 2013, 01:46

Alphabetical is by far the most intuitive.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby GodzFire » 15 Apr 2013, 01:28

Whoops sorry nm

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Myrk » 15 Apr 2013, 03:09

I'm wondering if you can make in-game chat bigger for higher resolutions. It's annoyingly tiny on my 1280x720 resolution. Bigger friend/foe blips on the minimap would be nice as well.
I remember chat being pretty much unmissable back when I played on good old 640x480 all the time, same with map blips. Maybe make large chat and blips an option if some people want them to stay tiny.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 15 Apr 2013, 03:13

Yeah the scalability of the UI definitely needs and overhaul; not a trivial amount of work so it won't make it into 1.8, but it's definitely on the list for the future. Blips in particular are almost impossible to see on high DPI displays.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ » 15 Apr 2013, 04:29

NewMutator wrote:Alphabetical is by far the most intuitive.


Seconded

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Renwood » 15 Apr 2013, 13:23

Yea, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP.....as it should be!!

Godz, Whats with the GIANT window devoted to some fuckin NON myth character?

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Arzenic » 15 Apr 2013, 14:15

When watching films, units sunk in deep water don't show on overview map. I remember this being an issue in some earlier beta also

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Giant Killer General » 15 Apr 2013, 18:07

renwood are you fucking retarded? go read his fucking post again. reading comprehension.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby Renwood » 17 Apr 2013, 15:02

GKG, Do NOT make me post the video of you killing your entire team by friendly fire locking 35% of your teams myrks AND YOUR 2 fetch assassin targets, thus making the team I captained WIN.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ » 18 Apr 2013, 16:56

When hosting from the ffaleague pack, I sometimes get a red "ERROR" in the place of the map name after changing meshes.

Running Mac OS 10.7.5

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby punkUser » 18 Apr 2013, 17:25

Milk Man wrote:When hosting from the ffaleague pack, I sometimes get a red "ERROR" in the place of the map name after changing meshes.

In the preview window in the lobby you mean, or elsewhere?

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby c⁄J⁄Iılk c⁄J⁄Iån ◊§t◊ » 18 Apr 2013, 18:01

In the preview window. People coming in from lobby were saying that it was also displaying as "ERROR" out there.

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Re: Myth 2 1.8 Public Beta

Postby dac » 18 Apr 2013, 18:04

so numerous times ive reported that myth freezes up on me randomly, sucks up 100% of my processor affinity and is non responsive. this happened during a game last night, i was getting 1 frame every 3 or 4 seconds, my commands were lost and i had to force quit myth. the rest of my computer was fine (because myth affinity is set to 1 processor only).

would be nice to get this fixed eventually. this usually happens in lobby, this is the first time its happened mid game.


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