Myth series Speedrunning

A single berserk reached us yesterday, after having come all the way over the mountains from the city of Willow, fourteen hundred miles away. He delivered to Alric a single package the size of a man's fist, wrapped in rags, and refuses to talk with anyone about events in the West.
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Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:54 pm

Hello. Got the series added to speedrun.com since it's basically what I've been doing. I'm supermod for the game over there. I haven't quite finished everything, but most important elements are up there now.

I'm going to fill up all those categories for sure, but I never mind competition. :twisted:

If anyone is vaguely interested, I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.


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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby garnish » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:12 am

Is proof of the speedrun simply done with a screen recording?

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:18 pm

Yes. There a number of different ways to go about it, just depending on what your set up is.

But in general, just a video of the recording is needed. Since I'm the only one to be verifying this, a timer would be really useful (like LiveSplit). It helps me make sure Fear and Loathing hasn't been adjusted without anyone having to pull that up every time to show it.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby HMP » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:14 am

Looks like your observer physics constants are slowing you down.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:27 am

Constantly. The rate of being able to scroll across the map, and zoom out, are basically the two largest limitations.

Optimally, one would could a near camera scroll through some clever use of keyboard and mouse skills, but it's hard when also trying to adjust speed, rotate, and zoom when necessary.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:54 pm

What is this? Beating a game as fast as possible using F2? Because Hadiez and I own all the records for every M2 Coop played at normal speed (played online).

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Hadzenegger » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:30 pm

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:What is this? Beating a game as fast as possible using F2? Because Hadiez and I own all the records for every M2 Coop played at normal speed (played online).

We can confirm this with mariusnets records and videos/screenshots (assuming Krok still has em lul) of how fast we beat every map. No saves/loads, all done online, no tampering of the maps using fear&loathing

But I guess maybe you could consider this a different category cause it's map by map and not a full consecutive myth run

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Pogue » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:05 am

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:What is this? Beating a game as fast as possible using F2? Because Hadiez and I own all the records for every M2 Coop played at normal speed (played online).


You phaggots wasted so many hours too. Jesus.....

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby par73 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:49 am

Nihilist Comedy Hour wrote:Constantly. The rate of being able to scroll across the map, and zoom out, are basically the two largest limitations.

Optimally, one would could a near camera scroll through some clever use of keyboard and mouse skills, but it's hard when also trying to adjust speed, rotate, and zoom when necessary.


You can change your camera speeds via observer constants in fear, and speed them up to your liking.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:03 am

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:What is this? Beating a game as fast as possible using F2? Because Hadiez and I own all the records for every M2 Coop played at normal speed (played online).


Sorry for the late reply! I made different categories for each, such as this.

Solo - F2 function
Solo - No F2 function
Coop - (Since it's Coop, obviously F2 isn't an option)

Just made since to set different categories for since they are clearly way different.

I also set up ranking based on the same categories for each individual level.

And also for each difficulty setting.

So basically every conceivable way the game can be speedran (outside modification).

If you got records, please send my times, films, pictures, ranking, anything at all. I'd be happy to put times up on the board (or show you how if you prefer) if I can verify. Films would be best, obviously, and I can I post any online if need be to help verification.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:05 am

Hadzenegger wrote:
BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:What is this? Beating a game as fast as possible using F2? Because Hadiez and I own all the records for every M2 Coop played at normal speed (played online).

We can confirm this with mariusnets records and videos/screenshots (assuming Krok still has em lul) of how fast we beat every map. No saves/loads, all done online, no tampering of the maps using fear&loathing

But I guess maybe you could consider this a different category cause it's map by map and not a full consecutive myth run


If they weren't basically played back to back (which is brutal, timid by myself takes just about 3 hours, and I haven't even got a good legendary one yet to post), then they would still qualify as independent levels for sure. I'd love to put your times up and such, so PM or let me know the best way to go about it, or whatever works easiest for you guys.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:07 am

par73 wrote:
Nihilist Comedy Hour wrote:Constantly. The rate of being able to scroll across the map, and zoom out, are basically the two largest limitations.

Optimally, one would could a near camera scroll through some clever use of keyboard and mouse skills, but it's hard when also trying to adjust speed, rotate, and zoom when necessary.


You can change your camera speeds via observer constants in fear, and speed them up to your liking.


Uh, I'm definitely going to check that out for sure. If it's workable, I'll definitely have to put that is the Misc category runs.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby HMP » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:38 pm

Doesn't really make sense to separate it for modified camera speeds, they are no different from custom formations. I'm sure nearly everyone who plays uses custom formations, and most use modified camera. Its not a game play modification so the films will run exactly the same as with default camera/formations.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:18 am

HMP wrote:Doesn't really make sense to separate it for modified camera speeds, they are no different from custom formations. I'm sure nearly everyone who plays uses custom formations, and most use modified camera. Its not a game play modification so the films will run exactly the same as with default camera/formations.


I don't know. Even games with updated resolutions can be problematic because something like being able to see the entirety of the map would be a huge advantage over the intended gameplay. I mean, if I can zoom out far enough to see the entire map, I could probably get my Timid fullgame run down to 15 minutes instead of 23. On Legendary though, it probably wouldn't even be able to useful, as their aren't very many instances where you can pull off trying to walk across the map at faster than 8x/16x. If just generally allowed instead of being some sort of Misc thing, it would nice to have like one plugin that would allow for some sort of consistency among different players.

On films it wouldn't really matter. Because in the in-game film function of the Myth series, it doesn't record F1/F2 manipulation. (The only way to submit an AnySpeed run would to record live the actual gameplay). And since it doesn't really affect anything outside of Timid/Simple gameplay, I could see the case for allowing observer camera changes.

I haven't even really considered custom formations. I have stipulated in the rules yet, but generally allow plugins that just alter the graphics (even though I run the game on basic graphics myself for speedruns).

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:54 am

Now that I think about, submitting any solo in-game films is sort of problematic. One could make a series of save states basically to make a film, which would be sort of antithetical to the premise of a speedrun. That would basically be like a TAS.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:11 am

Maybe if they are done in TCP/IP? I'm not sure there is a way to show in the in-game film that it's done on TCP/IP instead of in-game, unless if someone submits a run, I'll have to record it and hit F7 before I upload to YouTube, showing the player name instead of "Light" or whatever it says in Solo.

Ultimately, the load times shouldn't matter much. I will eventually add "real time w/o loads" "real time w/ loads" and "in-game time" giving priority to real time w/o loads.

There are more considerations here when it comes to verifying then I keep thinking; but given the length of time it's been since some of these runs were likely made, I will likely work with what I can be given for sure.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:07 am

I honestly don't know why anyone would really want to waste their time doing speed runs offline by themselves using F2. There are too many variables that could potentially be altered. Only way is to verify each game by watching someone's livestream or something. Online Coop is really the only way to prove the proper times.

See screenshots below. For security sake and for sake of our strategies being copied, films will not be included. Only one that is missing from this group is Hadiez' solo win of Landing at White Falls (glitch win).

https://imgur.com/a/ZgmtU

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:55 pm

These photos should work. I will work to alter the leader boards in such a way to include "in-game timing" of these old MDQ runs so they can be properly accounted for. The only thing that kinda sucks is that I can't actually determine what the difficulty setting is, but I take everyone's word for it that all past MDQ's were done on legendary. EDIT: NVM, it says right at the top. :mrgreen:

Also, there's a lot of names in these pictures.

Hennessy
Hadzenegger
Fox Shox
Hadiezomg
Hideiki Matsu
Velociraptor
Big Krok V8 SS
Badger Racing
Father Xmas
Trow Captain (btw, not sure what the Landing of White Falls glitch, but this looks like a solo run? Same for Forge?)
Dark Raped
Crazy Horse
Big Daque V-Jate
Built MWC Tough
dake town
sexcaliber
waywardone
Pogiez
Dewalt (TM)
Kahlal Toad
Johnson/Dale Jr. '12
Tebro
Meatfist Fistington
StalKeR
SopaKilla
LOKI
IDK LOL
LF BOARDER

I mean, the simplest thing to do would be literally use the names in the photos for the "name field" even if there is some overlap there. Getting some of those special characters down correctly might be a little hard, but I'll look into it. If there's any reason I shouldn't use the names as shown, please give me a head's up.

On the bright side, this shows me though I should be able to accept any photo of the game's end condition (F7 shows time and "Victory") for Solo Normal Speeds (so long as done on TCP/IP, otherwise need normal recording to verify it wasn't made with save states) and for Coop, since Co-op can't be saved anyways. And I feel pretty confident that it would incredibly difficult to make a fake photo for game's end condition.

As far as AnySpeed (w/ F2) is concerned, the only real way to confirm this is through actual recorded game play; which is pretty tedious and takes a good graphics card to do, so I could understand why no one would go through the hassle of doing it. I'm not too worried about someone trying to alter units or the maps... I know them pretty well, so trying to speed up archers, or cause their arrows to do more damage or something is going to be easy to catch if a live recording of game play.

Also, I came across this a while back: http://myth.bungie.org/mythmaster/archive/index.html

However, I'm not able to download these films, or at least, I can download the .zip files, but they appear to be corrupted or something? Any help in this matter would be appreciated. I'd be happy to include these times as well assuming I can verify who did them and difficulty setting.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:09 pm

Welp, just figured out The Forge Bridge Glitch.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:49 am

I will clarify who the names are:


I am:
BIG KROK V8 SS
Hennessey
Fox Shox
Velociraptor
Trow Captain
Dewalt
Johnson/Dale Jr. '12
LF Boarder
Built MWC Tough
IDK LOL


Hadiez is:
Hadzenegger
Hadiezomg
Hideiki Matsui
Badger Racing
Pogiez
Tebro


Anyone outside of these names was maybe an accomplice in 2-3 of the games played.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:15 am

Alright cool. I'm working to get the timer situation set up correctly so I can integrate the in-game timing and such without messing stuff up. As soon as I straiten all that out, update the rules appropriately, I will add on all the runs (and for the extra individuals, I will use their name as is.)

I guess I should probably ask what dates these were done on? (I mean, the year would be fine, but if you know the rough dates, that works too).

Also, given the date, what version would you have been playing on? I assume there appears to be no real difference in terms of speedrunning any v1.3+.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:27 pm

Krok, I've pretty gotten everything set up correctly now. I'm ready to upload your times, I'm just wondering what the rough time frame it is they were generally produced (year is fine).

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:47 pm

I renamed the films, which erases out when the games were played. I'd say most were done between 2011 and 2014. Maybe if I look up the files in Explorer it would show when the file was created?

Edit: Just looked them up. 95% of them were done in 2011. Version of Myth would have been 1.7. Definitely nothing pre 1.6. There were some old old old ones done (by other players) on 1.3 and earlier but afterwards the glitches were fixed with patches. There are no known glitches pertaining to the current levels. There are some 'cheats' to manipulate the map/enemy units but they are already scripted into the gameplay (e.g. The Forge bridge).

I have the films of the original MDQ films that were probably done on 1.3 or shortly after. Our Summoner MDQ was 8 minutes faster than the previous record (because we are fucking geniuses of the game).

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:42 am

Cool, I'm just going to default them 2011. Just didn't want to put today's date or whatever. 1.6 is good to know. I'll probably limit the runs 1.6 and above going forward, unless someone really wants to do v1.5 for some reason. They are all later patches, so I'm sure anything that really matters time-wise was fixed long ago. Simplicity sake.

Yea I noticed a couple of times listed in this M2DQ archive that were a couple seconds faster than the ones you got here, but since I can't actually acquire a picture to verify, let alone a full film, I'm not too concerned about adding them, at least for now.

Just as a side note: I also have Drinking Party and Limbs listed as well, so if you have any past runs of that one or want do to one, I can list that as well. Also M1/M3 are more or less set up in the same fashion if you have times for those. Films/pics definitely have to be of game play in M1/M3, not M1/M3tagsets loaded in M2.

Yeah, it doesn't appear there is any real glitch in any of the runs so far; it's all basically script manipulation. Not like, actually changing the script, but just taking advantage of the script in someway. I guess that maybe the Forge bridge might be considered a glitch, since the unit is sort of clipping through a model somehow, but the "glitch" on Ermine is just pure taking advantage of a shoddy scripting (I got mine down to 30 seconds, but for the life of me I can't figure out how that extra second gets shaved away. 8-) ). In any case, they are all allowed in my mind for now, but I doubt another will ever be found. Although, I shouldn't say never... glitches get found to this day on NES games, so.

In any case, I'll try to get all your runs submitted tonight, and I'll let ya know when it's all up.


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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby BIG KROK V8 SS » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:01 pm

Yeah I don't think we ever seriously attempted Drinking Party and Limbs. Both would be pretty tough time wise. Drinking party is just a pain in the ass to play.

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Re: Myth series Speedrunning

Postby Nihilist Comedy Hour » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:18 pm

BIG KROK V8 SS wrote:Yeah I don't think we ever seriously attempted Drinking Party and Limbs. Both would be pretty tough time wise. Drinking party is just a pain in the ass to play.


Limbs is worth trying for sure. It's fun. Drink Party is a pain in the ass... takes me 9 minutes even using F2 freely, mainly because it appears you basically have to kill every deer on the map for victory condition, exploding or not.


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