mwc11 top matches for bullz

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mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 31 May 2017, 18:04

for those requesting it and others interested, below is a link to download the mwc11 finals match of bullz vs nc, and also another top match with bullz vs np

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=07003138711285976527

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby par73 » 05 Jun 2017, 17:22

for those requesting it and others interested, above is a link to download the mwc11 finals match of a team who really gave a shit about winning vs a team who didn't really care about winning, and also another top match with a team who really gave a shit about winning vs a team who didn't really care about winning too

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 05 Jun 2017, 21:37

NC didn't care about winning in 2011? hahaha...


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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 07 Jun 2017, 07:15

NC was significantly less motivated in 2011 for sure... Not to say we didn't care about winning... we had won something like 7 tournaments in a row at that point, but most of the team was pretty inactive by 2011. We didn't strategize or practice nearly as much as previous years... our private forums were pretty bare, compared to previous iterations which had comprehensive discussion about every match and individual map... who'd play what roles, etc. There really wasn't any of that in 2011... basically just showed up to play. I mean... we didn't try to lose... but the effort and interest was not what it once had been. IIRC we had a hard time even assembling the roster that year.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 07 Jun 2017, 15:37

All I did was post some films that people were asking for and the historical revisionists felt compelled to come out of the woodwork for some reason. pretty cute.

just so everyone knows, despite the false narrative paris and adren are trying to spread here, the facts of history don't support it. And the most important fact is that if you counted the number of hours spent planning for a match, the mwc11 finals was probably the most planned-for match in myth history. Among mwc's, it was the only mwc finals that featured 2 teams that heavily planned (talking about 20+ hours of planning on each side). And this is known because in the last week or 2 leading up to the match, one could witness shaister, ska, and several other NC members strategizing in their own private game for what probably totaled about 20+ collective hours (multiply it by the number of people present and it could easily be 100+ man-hours of planning). And that was just what I personally witnessed - it could have been more. The bullz made jokes about it at the time. And this was a regular practice of NC's throughout their dynasty that they were well known for, although that match they spent a significant amount of time even by their standards because we tied them in our one previous match in the tournament.

So I don't know about the level of activity in their forums, but frankly it doesn't matter because the prep-work done in-game was off the charts. And several people, particularly bullz members, personally witnessed this. Adren was likely just not in those in-game strat sessions because he rarely ever participated in those.

I agree about one thing though. 2009 was NC's peak when it had both ghengis and I (which also happens to be when their dynasty of stringing wins together actually began), and it had been waning since then. But waning or not being at peak does not equal being inactive or uncaring. The amount of time NC spent preparing in-game is the proof in the pudding ;).

and in regards to NP that year - we all know now that at least tirri has always cared :).

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 07 Jun 2017, 23:09

I actually participated a lot in strat prep... just because you claim otherwise does not make it so. Satchel rain? Entirely my idea. Numerous other strats that we used were also my creation. Yes, the majority of it was done by Shai and Cu... but other members of the team definitely had a hand in it. Typically, they would come up with a strat and demonstrate it for us and we'd give feedback.

The rest of you argument is just utter nonsense and completely filled with holes. 2009 was not the beginning of our run... it was 2007... we lost MWC finals by a hair in OT and then won TWS, which is what started it all. We had won 2 tournaments and been MWC finalists twice before you even joined... don't act like you were the catalyst to our string of victories... You were still running with Raz and company at the time. I'm not denying that you had a big impact on our roster... but we had the talent to win with or without you.

And regardless of what you claim, we did not spend a lot of time preparing strats for the 2011 finals. Yes, strats were prepared, but not a lot of thought or work went into them beyond devising a trade and unit distribution. I mean... we knew your playstyle was rush-heavy and we didn't even use anti-rush strats. It was definitely a topic of discussion after the match... and probably our downfall, in hindsight. 100+ man hours went into those strats? False.

And you can say the word "fact" all you want... but nothing is fact without proof, which you do not have. But I find it cute how you claim to know the inner workings of a team you weren't even a part of.

Also, to clarify something... most of our "private games" were us suiciding units in spectacular ways and talking about MMA. But you clearly know every detail of every myth happening, so who am I to argue right? :roll:

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 08 Jun 2017, 03:04

2009 was the start of the string of wins. I didn't say 2nd place finishes, I said wins. I also did not say first win or start of run, I said string of wins (i.e. multiple consecutive wins). And the reason I said it that was because that is typically how a dynasty is defined. After all, it isn't much of a dynasty if you only win every other tournament, or you only have a string of 2nd place finishes. So reading comprehension please, especially before you try to claim a 100% true statement is false.

I didn't say NC didn't or couldn't have success without me or before me, I just said mwc 2009 was their peak. Nothing you said disputes this. Does anyone dispute this? I don't think so. This is just classic projection you are showing here. Thanks, I am flattered.

you don't have any proof either. Sorry bro, but I and others witnessed it, and I know what I saw. You just weren't there to see it, that's all.

Yes, I am sure they were hanging out in private team games with the exact settings for their upcoming match for 20+ hours all throughout the week just talking about MMA and suiciding units. That seems like the more logical explanation clearly.

The response to this alone shows how much you still care about it :).

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 08 Jun 2017, 05:03

Giant Killer General wrote:2009 was the start of the string of wins.


TWS was early (winter) 2008

Giant Killer General wrote:You just weren't there to see it, that's all.


I was one of the most active players on the server at the time and on the aforementioned team... pretty sure I was there, homie.

Giant Killer General wrote:The response to this alone shows how much you still care about it :).


just lol

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 08 Jun 2017, 06:03

late 08 / early 09 - same difference. after mwc08 though, not way before in 07 with their first win or 2nd place finish like you were trying to suggest.

well you just tried to claim that NC did not have private strat sessions in-game to prepare for that match, or if they did, it was minimal. So clearly you were not in the many NC strat sessions that actually took place leading up to that finals match. Either you weren't there, forgot about them, or are lying - take your pick, homie. Sorry for the inconvenient truth, but they happened. No doesn't-count-because-we-didn't-care excuse for you.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 08 Jun 2017, 21:56

I didn't say there were no strat sessions... there was some degree of preparation, but not nearly as much as in previous tournaments. I mean... we fought your rush heavy strats with pretty standard artillery squad-based tactics. That should kinda tell you all you need to know right there.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Lord---Scary Owl » 08 Jun 2017, 23:50

I was a fetus during 9/11

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 09 Jun 2017, 01:45

adren, you are gravely misinformed and/or misguided about the strategizing of the team you claim to know so well and been a part of for so long. But no worries, I am here to correct it for you.

NC (and more specifically, shaister, who was the chief strategist for NC) always had a tendency for artillery-heavy trades (at least when melee rushes were not blatantly obvious). It wasn't something they just started doing, they always did that. And nobody needs to have been a part of NC to know this. NC was well-known for this (the fact that you are unaware of this is telling).

This was why I was able to predict NC strategies so well in mwc11 - because they had a history and pattern of doing that. I already knew what they were going to do. If that was such a new practice, then how would I be able to predict it so well ahead of time?

Your team's strategy on Hvergelmir dark assassin (game 6 of the mwc11 finals) is a PERFECT example of this point. Shaister decides to get a heavy lock and soulless trade and we go for the (correct) rush trade - surrounding your army and executing a near-flawless rush, ending the game in record time with something like 80% remaining. And I knew that would happen because i'll be goddamned, shaister did the same exact strategy roughly 2 years prior in mwc09 (or sometime around then) against whatever tcox team that Zer was on. At that time, I was on NC and trowing in that game - and we lost again nearly the exact same way against a rush (albeit a much sloppier game on both sides). And I don't even think those were the only 2 times he used that exact strategy for that exact map/game in a tournament, there might have been one other too. So it's not as if I was making miraculous predictions at the time. It was obvious if you knew what to look for.

That one example just perfectly sums up shaister's (and subsequently, NC's) entire philosophy on myth strategy - artillery squads whenever possible, and never change a thing even if the strategy loses. As shaister would always say - they only lost the game because of the execution, the strategy itself was fine. He never could see how strategy and execution are intimately interconnected together, or take responsibility for his mistakes as a strategist, or be capable of changing his mind about a strategy. As nice of a guy as he may be otherwise, if you do not know how stubborn shaister is about his strategizing, then you missed an entirely different aspect of his personality. Clearly, he got very complacent and comfortable with everyone on NC letting him play chief for so long with nobody ever questioning his authority/judgment, and it went to his head.

I also know all of this very well because I strategized fairly extensively with shaister for about a year through 2 or 3 tournaments during part of my time on NC (in all that time, you only briefly joined 1 of our strat sessions, during which you contributed nothing meaningful). It was a major source of huge disagreements between us over which direction to take for trades - his artillery or more traditional trades vs. my more melee-heavy, or sometimes unorthodox trades. He was extremely stubborn in those strat sessions (very much like raziel). I also remember this very well because it was a major reason for my decision to leave NC, as I was motivated to prove his strategies wrong (which of course I obviously did very well in mwc11, and in the years that followed). The experience also partly inspired my strategy article which I wrote immediately after mwc11.

You have very little detail to add to this story, which should be very telling to everyone about the depth of your knowledge of the situation. But the one detail you do add, and the little story that there is from you has now completely fallen apart. There were indeed plenty of NC strat sessions, especially leading up to the grand finals match. I was there in the lobby looking at them many times. Getting into speculative details of how much time was spent or how it compared to previous tournaments is irrelevant, because it was still a very significant amount of time and effort spent planning regardless. And this further makes sense because there was major beef between bullz and NC throughout the tournament, much of it revolving around either Kirk or I since we both used to be part of NC. So of course NC cared, there are no bones about it. It was not their best team - sure. But that is quite different from not caring. They definitely cared. You and other NC members were even talking a bunch of shit throughout the tournament. That isn't the behavior of someone that doesn't care!

I think there is a perfectly good explanation for this delusion though. What is really happening here is that you guys lost all of your care in the middle of the finals match after losing the first 3 games in a row (and badly I might add, not even close). At that point, all hope was lost and you all had to prepare for the inevitable, so THEN you all didn't care maybe. But that is quite different obviously. So you are just clinging to the memory of that lack of care as a defense mechanism for that humiliating defeat (which ended your team's dynasty), which is further repressing the reality of the actual great deal of care that went into that tournament, and particularly into that match up until the first couple games.

It all makes sense now, doesn't it?

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 09 Jun 2017, 09:56

Wow, dude. You put far too much effort into this. Let me clear a few things up for you. I was not unaware of NCs tendency toward heavy artillery-based trades... I fucking played with them from 2006-2012...

So you predicted we'd do the same as always... congrats. Likewise, we knew you would go rush heavy because you, too, are predictible... You had been doing it all tournament long. Why we continued with an artillery-heavy offence is anyones guess... perhaps the old addage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies. It's not like we didn't know you'd rush, I think it's more like we thought we could handle it with what we had. Oops... guess we were wrong.

Giant Killer General wrote:I also know all of this very well because I strategized fairly extensively with shaister for about a year through 2 or 3 tournaments during part of my time on NC (in all that time, you only briefly joined 1 of our strat sessions, during which you contributed nothing meaningful).


Aaand here's where I call you on your bullshit. You played with us in two tournaments.. MWC09 and TWS2 (you only played 1 game of the finals... which kinda speaks to your level of involvement in that team, doesn't it?)... I played with NC in 9 or 10 tournaments over the course of 6+ years... who the fuck are you to tell me what my level of involvement was? So, according to your memory of a few strats sessions 8 years ago... I only briefly joined once. Cool. Not a big secret that you and I never got along... so not much of a surprise that I'd not want to sit in a game with you for hours going over strats. But again... we are basing this on your word that you remember the exact details of NC strat sessions from 8 years ago... Seems reasonable. :roll:

Anyways... many of the strats executed throughout the years were of my creation. Not the majority, by any means, but many nonetheless. Like you said, Shai was our primary strat caller and we were always fine with letting him do his thing. Our earlier forums were full of strat discussion... lengthy threads dedicated to each map of every match (at least the matches vs serious opponents). I posted many... complete with strategy maps and the works... many of them were used. In '06/'07.. and to a lesser degree '08.. we played countless scrims against other top teams and tested strats to see what did and did not work, who worked well in what roles, etc. I'm sure you remember such games when you were with the BIA squad. THAT's care. We had a stockpile of our old films on our KDX server that we'd use for reference when stratting, even. The later years had none of that. Half the team were totally inactive and barely played except for during MWC... and even then, none much outside of matches. So when I say the general NC care factor was much lower in 2011... I don't think I'm very far off in that assessment. Obviously we still wanted to win, but the level of effort put forth in past iterations was certainly not there. I don't even know how you could argue otherwise, really. But please... continue posting your version of history. Everyone loves a good story.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 09 Jun 2017, 19:40

again, your story is so easy to pick apart.

I played with NC for 3 tournaments - tws09, mwc09 and nml10/tws10 (hosted by absolut). Look it up or ask around. So, oops, your facts are wrong again. I guess you tried to call me out on my bullshit but ended up cornering yourself on your own bullshit instead.

I said 2 or 3 because there was likely some patches near the beginning and end of that period of time where I may not have been heavily involved in the strats. And I voluntarily sat most of the tws09 finals because NC outmatched the opponents significantly, so I didn't find it a compelling or competitive match and was therefore not motivated to play. I was quite active the rest of the tournament. I did the same thing again later by not showing to the tws10/nml10 finals against tvr for the same reason. So that really says nothing about my level of involvement throughout the rest of the tournament (nice try though).

As for you, I can tell you what your level of involvement was for those 3 tournaments because I was there and heavily involved in the strategy sessions at that period of time. How long you were with NC outside of that period of time is irrelevant because I did not comment on any of it. You also don't even directly refute the truth of my claim, you just dodge it. So again, everything I said still stands true.

NC knew I liked to rush, especially after our first match of the tournament. But that is all NC knew. NC did not understand the details of how it would be intelligently executed. If you did, you wouldn't have tried to defend it the way you did, or do sloppy rushes yourselves. Case in point - NC actually attempted a rush of their own on game 5 of the mwc11 finals, wish I didn't dud - stampede (a trow map but with dark units). That game bullz defended the rush instead. And we won handily. Again, another instance of your team's lack of comprehension on when and how to do rushes, and how to defend them. But this is not about NC's faults on strategy, it's about their care.

Also, TWS09 did start in early 2009 as I originally suspected - not in late 08 as you claimed. I just checked it - paris was promoting registration in late january, 2009. Your memory is wrong there again. So as I stated before, the NC dynasty (where they were on top for consecutive tournaments) started in 2009. Looks like my memory is better than yours.

Again, I said nothing of your participation outside of what I experienced personally during my time on NC. Why would I comment about something I know nothing about? I am very clear about what I know and what I don't know. You are projecting yet again. I said that during the time I was on NC, you showed for 1 strat session briefly and contributed nothing meaningful - a completely true statement still. You could have done 100% of the strats before that period of time and the veracity of my statement still remains true.

And finally, yet again, comparisons to previous years is irrelevant. NC cared in mwc11. Plain and simple. You want to downplay it by saying they didn't care as much as certain previous years, and you base that only on the activity of strategy forum discussions. But on the other hand, they probably spent more time on in-game strat sessions in mwc11 too - much or all of which you apparently did not see (which is probably why your memory is so deluded here). There is no care-math here to tell definitively which one matters more. Not to mention that the true sign of NC not caring was when they barely showed up to matches, as they did previously in tws10/nml10. Meanwhile, they always had strong showings in mwc11. So try to downplay it all you want, but at the end of the day, you cared. NC cared. NC prepared extensively. And they lost spectacularly. Keep downplaying it as much as you want in your head if it helps you sleep better at night. But unfortunately for you, it doesn't change history.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 10 Jun 2017, 01:12

Don't recall you being on the NML10 team, but I don't have any films from that tourney so I'll have to take your word on it I guess. The rest of this argument is just going in circles and I'm pretty over it. Checking out now. See you in the next one.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 10 Jun 2017, 05:19

yea well, as I have been saying this whole time, there are a lot of things you apparently don't recall.

In any case, great, I am glad we could clear up the true history on this for everyone.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Lord---Scary Owl » 10 Jun 2017, 08:55

That was great

so why do when I click on the link I get requested to update and dl PC cleaners and a free trip to the bahamas


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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Lord---Scary Owl » 10 Jun 2017, 23:28

Giant Killer General wrote:ok I uploaded again on a different site, try this one:

http://www.filedropper.com/mwc11topbullsmatches



Ok which of the 5 download buttons do I click?

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 10 Jun 2017, 23:35

i guess a lot of these free file hosting sites suck

another link to try:

https://ufile.io/6koxo

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Lord---Scary Owl » 11 Jun 2017, 01:51

6 - 1 rape, doesn't seem like fun

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby Giant Killer General » 11 Jun 2017, 02:22

i suppose that depends which side of the raping you are on. it was quite fun for bullz i assure you.

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Re: mwc11 top matches for bullz

Postby adrenaline » 11 Jun 2017, 17:08

just create a mediafire account, gkg. it's a good one for this kinda shit.


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